I think it might be round 22 where we miss the presence of the great man the most..
Dick would've tapped Ratts on the shoulder, given him some encouraging "words" and Ratts resigns in the cleanest possible circumstances..

Rewind 2 years and I reckon you'd find these threads on Saintsational and whatever Hawthorns fan forums are. Clarkson and Lyon have both been criticised by supporters for the direction their club was going on. Doesn't mean Ratten is on the right track as well, but I'll only be convinced Ratten isn't the right guy when the people at the club who know about football are. Until then I have faith.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

So you have faith in Sticks at the helm? And you have faith in Ratts who was selected based on an invisible process at best....whose contract was then extended based on what??? His performance? Results? What?

But thats just my opinion...you keep on keeping the faith...

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

I keep hearing about the process to get Ratts. What happened in this process? Only give me facts though, not your perception or what you heard through the media or a friend. I need to know.

It sounds like you have more of an issue with Sticks than Ratten.

You don't know that the process was "Invisible at best".

I'm not saying that Ratts is necessarily the man to lead us to the Elysian fields of Premiership glory, but he's what we have, and there's not a whole lot of quality out there anyway.

Laidley? No thanks. Wallet? Next! Hardwick? Untested at the highest level. Longmire? Same. Williams? Not for my club. Malthouse? Past it.

Who's left?

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Pagan. GET PAGAN

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Congratulations CK95

Thats my point. Other than Voss, Ratts was the only other guy looked at. Did the club come out and mention a long list of names that had been interviewed and considered? No. My point is not so much Ratts but how we came about appointing Ratts. Do you see where I'm coming from here?

And then we go and extend his contract long before his current contract had expired. Uhmm why? I'm only asking the question. I'd like an answer though. I wish the club would answer that one for me. If the club came out and said we considered Voss, Ratten and 5 other blokes for the job and Ratten impressed the most then I'd be satisfied. But that was never said by anyone at the club level or at the media level or at the friend level because it didnt happen. He just seemed to fall into favour when Voss knocked us back.

Then when his contract was extended, had the club come out and said we have extended Rattens contract (early) based on the fact that we had set certain goals for Brett ...such as a set number of wins....evidence of extensive player development..evidence of game plan and tactics that in the opinion of those in charge would take us to a flag...then I'd be satisfied....but that didn't happen. In effect Ratten was signed up till 2011 based on little that I could see. All I'm asking for is for the club to clear the fog a little for people like me who would like to see my club being run in a professional manner.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

i fear he has lost some of the players

on the surface what he was saying before the game made sense - we need to shut down their run etc etc

it sounded like he had learned from round 3

but he went way overboard and had 5 or 6 taggers and still left the corridor open - his idea of shutting their run down didnt really make sense and definitely didnt work

the first half showed that

whatever he said at half time clearly didnt work and we looked to have the same setup to start the second half

i fear that the second half showed a playing group with a lack of belief in their coach and his directions

i hope this is not the case but things dont look good, that second half turnaround was a disgrace and resembled a player strike to an extent

im far from convinced with our match day structures and tactics from the coach and hope things can be turned around

quickly

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

I think a lot of people have trouble seperating Ratts appointment from his performance.

Do I have faith in Sticks at the helm? I have a lot more faith in Sticks knowledge of football and what to look for in for a coach than I do in myself or anyone else here.

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

sorry kk....I don't like to personalise at posters but are you serious ??? That is a most defeatist attitude..."he is what we have" !

that's not good enough and is not the Carlton way....DP (RIP) would be rolling in his grave hearing that !

We must demand and find the best....in every dept

Go after Roos, Malthouse (nothing wrong with him - he is going just fine and has a great record with a slighlty above average list over the last 8 years), Buckley....

What is so distressing is we were so close..... Dick had two pieces of the holy trinity locked away....judd and swann....unfortunately the final missing piece was voss....and when that plan backfired we were left with nothing so we settled for second (maybe third or fourth some would argue) best !

A few more names were tossed about that we all heard. I am guessing more was going on behind closed doors. Ratts had the advantage like Knights at Essendon* and Roos and sydney due to him already working with the players and having thier support.

Swann is know dud and would have set him some goals. He was signed cheap so i reckon the option of an extension if he reached certain goals sound likely. However i dont know what goes on behind closed doors just like most if not all of us on this site.

I trust Pratt put the right people in place as he was no dud and am with Truebrad in trusting they will make the correct decisions when the time comes.

Voss? Brisbane appointed Voss without going through an extensive interview process. Who else did they interview?

He can't be any good.

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

I take your point about me seeming defeatist, but rest assured, I'm not. My point is more that there is little to be gained by ousting Ratts now.

I also agree with you about demanding and getting the best.

And, we have to be realistic. Roos will not leave Sydney and if he does, he won't coach elsewhere. Malthouse is well past it. Look at his record over the last few years, not his career.

Taking a gamble with Buckley: Isn't that carrying the same risk as gambling on an untried Ratten?

I don't know, and neither the majority of TCers whether Voss really was the "best option" at the time, or how many were looked at.

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Kouta would make a good head coach. Ang as his deputy.

Get blokes like Hickmott, Manton and SOS in as assistants with Diesel and Braddles.

That would be a Blue Heaven in my books.

They made a mistake when they gave him the first contract of 2 years
it was to short should have been 3 as he has gone for a quick fix to get the next contract
once he got resigned mistake number 2 he has been stuck in this develop for the future we must win games situation
Essendon* went into that game last night with no pressure no expectations it was a case of let it rip
Carlton went into that game with this is a must win everything is on the line attitude and it had been building for 2 weeks . You could see a loss coming a mile away
club should have given him 3 had a plan to lift them into the finals in the third
last season and this season has 2004 written all over it

started the year with 5 first gamers and through caution to the wind
last night we had one of them in the team and resorted back to the players who have let us down time and time again and expected the youngest defence in the clubs history to hold off a barage coming at them from the un accountable rubbish upfield

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

I've never understood the "lost the coach" argument.

It's a cop out from supporters who think we're a lot better than we are.

Why wouldn't the players have any pride in their performance and faith in their coach after they won the Brisbane game and nearly beat the Saints?

It's the work ethic of the former that needs to improve.

Apart from Simpson, Waite and Walker, the rest of our 100 gamers have become accustomed to capitulating each week for the past six years.

They can't be [REDACTED] fighting and showing any passion for the jumper.

The four of them...

Fev holds up the ball because he wants the attention more than the four points.

Fev still doesn't see the glory in chasing your man consistently when you can stand in the goal square and get frost bite.

Our second year ruckman plays with more heart and intensity than players who are supposed to lead him.

The Bombers have no problem finding a few Solomons and Johnsons in Hocking, Welsh and Lonergan who will fight tooth and nail for the ball.

Hads is limited after his injuries, but his former Brisbane teammates would have murdered the Bombers if they had attacked Black and gone down fighting in a big loss. Hadley might be out of form and slow, but he wouldn't hesitate to smack a cauliflower like Welsh or Lonergan if they tackled Judd without the ball.

Or driven Judd into the ground head first in a gang tackle.

They had a winning mindset typified by their no holds barred attack on Riewoldt.

A Geelong fan said to me that they really went after Judd with rough tackles.

Just like Sheedy's Essendon* who really bent the rules and were well coached.

We need another Rhys, Dean or Johnston...

Surely Hadley is better than Bannister and could have been used in the middle against Welsh?

What was the reaction of our older players to their treatment of Judd?

They just reset and went back to their positions...

Judd should be disgusted in the lack of spirit shown by Houlihan, Fevola, Scotland and Stevens.

The rest are too young to throw their weight around...

We have too many pussies in our leadership group.

Our coach dropped the ball with his man on man game plan, but he hasn't lost the players after their efforts against the Lions and the Saints.

I dont get that argument.
Just cos Voss was in the game till very recently and Ratts hasnt been around the game in years... and neither have had a process ... it doesnt mean that there is any logic to that all.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Here are some examples as to why we have serious coaching deficincies and breaks down the "we are developing argument"

Jamison/Bower- Often misses the spoil because he often spoils off balance due to incorrenct body positioning.
Austin- Misreading the flight of the ball at full back. I question whether our backman do enough defensive practice on the lead. Often argued modern footballers don't do enough kick to kick where you learn to judge flight of the ball
Armfield/Stevens/Houlihan/Browne- Not taught basic tackling techniques. (Learn from Eddie Betts)
Fevola-Twice leapt into his own man. Do we train with a forward line using multiple options?
Gibbs- Too defensive Has not been coached to break the lines. Is this mindset or fitness? In any case coaching issues.
Kick Out strategies- We appear to have no strategy/tactics here.
Corridor- The amount of times our players don't raise their eyes to kick the ball to a free man in the middle is unbelievable. We don't play corridor football
Selection- As long as you play Fisher, Bannister, Wiggins, Cloke, Houlihan ahead of kids, even if those kids have a bad week, we will not go forward.

Last night aside, Bower has been improving steadily since last year. I don't think you can write Bower and Jamo, who has rarely been seriously beaten this year, odd just yet.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Two problems...Ratten doesnt react quick enough to opposing teams tactics and we still have plenty of holes in the list which limits his ability to react...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen