If you want a miracle or our team to be a freak superteam where a bunch of kids with 20 -50 games somehow give the flag a shake this year or next then i agree Ratts isnt your man.

I think we got it wrong all week.

What summed it up for me was after the match they interviewed monfrees and he mentioned that all week Carlton was talking about getting us back and redemtion from round 3. He then mentioned that there focus was just on winning the game and how they weren't WORRIED about carlton and just worked on what they could do to win.

Our young key premiership hopefuls are still very mentally immature as far as consistent performance is concerned.
The likes of Jamo Aussie Bower Kreuzer Hampson Gibbs Murphy Yarran have the natural ability to guide the rest to the top of the mountain but they are not there yet. They have 10 years ahead of them.
To say our window will be shattered if things aren't going to plan this time next year is a bit dramatic.

IMO Stevo Houla Banno and the like have no hope of playing in a premiership side. They're only in the side now because of their physical maturity.

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There's so much I could say...

Agree with you Deano ....... Heard Fev during the week saying exactly that. Bit like him last night showing the ball after he got a mark (then failed to kick the distance). As if to say "job done". Utter crap. Absolutely no focus last night .... all reactive football (if you want to call it that).

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"IF YOU FAIL TO PREPARE, YOU'RE PREPARED TO FAIL" - Mark Spitz

I think confidence in disposal is a big part of moving the ball quickly.

Time and again I see a player leading into space, albeit not big space but enough space, only to see the player kicking it hesitate when seeing him and prefer to take the easy way out and bomb it to a contest.

That's a mental barrier our young blokes MUST overcome.

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There's so much I could say...

Lets ask ourselves this question that was plaguing me all night last night, and it is a hypothetical..
If Ratts was on the free market, how many OTHER clubs looking for a new coach would seriously entertain him? I think that answer says a lot of things...
We dont have the best available coach at the moment, and we need to get the best available coach.

So did we go in with too negative a mindset?

Besides Judd, Gibbs and Murphy, did we have any other midfielders who were playing to attack or playing to defend?

Bannister tagging Winderlich
Grigg tagging Watson
Carrazzo tagging Stanton
Joseph tagging Lovett
Houlihan tagging Dempsey

That's five players who are more focussed on their opponents than getting the ball themselves. You'd definitely tag Lovett but with the others did it go too far?

Did this then restrict the amount of run we had?

Their main tags appeared to be Welsh on Judd and possibly Lonergan on Simpson/Scotland.

You'd think they would be keen to lock down on our midfield but it wasn't the case.

To probably early in the third qtr we had held Lovett, Stanton and Winderlich fairly well yet we didn't counterpunch...were our taggers so negatively focussed that we couldn't hurt them the other way...so that we just relied on Judd/Gibbs/Murphy, with Judd not really having an impact because he was getting crunched at the stoppages.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

That's a fair point Budzy but when we do have the options are you confident that they can hit the target? Armfield most likely won't have the accuracy. We saw Hampson have Fisher clear in space but turn it over. Jamison your right won't take the harder option but I don't think his disposal is good enough. Austin's disposal isn't shit but I don't think he'd chop the opposition up with it. Bower is the one who can run off half back but he couldn't get off the leash. Browne will take the safe option.

So we probably need more players off half back who when that slight option is there they can deliver it. Gilbee/Drummond/Hodge/McLeod/Guerra/Gram/Goddard.

Chris Johnson was recruited for this role but he has been disappointing even before injury.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

You can't have too many pure stoppers in the side at once. One, maybe two.

Some of those matchups, our blokes don't hurt them the other way. Not good enough.

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There's so much I could say...

They'll never improve if they don't try, try and try some more. Practice practice practice.

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There's so much I could say...

Agree. I am not sure how good a coach Ratts is but a measurement between Carlton and Essendon* in recruiting, development, coach and team seems fair. We appeared to be ahead of them in all those areas and we have Judd. After last night we are clearly behind them in all areas. Our drafting has been comparable, but we have had better picks and their highest draft pick Gumbo has barely got on the park. Their players appear to have developed quicker. Clearly their coach has had the better of Ratts every time. They have beaten sides they are not expected to beat. When have we won a game this year we weren't expected to win?

On what basis I wonder did Ratts get a 2 year extension after one year in the job, was that the 'my mate's president" clause? He should not have been considered for extension until towards the end of this season, and if it was to be extended - one year only. We had no serious process. We went after Voss and then got Ratts without any serious searching. Did we talk to Bailey or Knights or anyone? I am not saying they are the answer but surely you need to have a serious process if you want the best in Australia, not just the best ex team mate who happens to be working at the club - that process seems to be applied to the assistants as well. Does experience count for anything? The only experience we have brought in is Riley. He might be great but because of Ratts inexperience as a coach and at other clubs he has brought in people he knows which is basically (apart from Riley) old team mates.

I just find it galling that Knights can get the level of effort he gets from his team and Ratts gets the level of effort we got last night in our most important and most telling game of the year - against a side that we are utterly comparable with.

Ratts should be coach next year because we have made a decision and need to stick with it for 3 years, but i am not sure he would have got the job if we had conducted the process correctly, and I doubt he will ever be a premiership coach.

Great coaches get the most from all players the most of the time. Ratt's needs to do that, and he is not at the moment. If Judd had stayed at WCE we'd be eyeing off a #3 or 4 draft pick.

Where do i start with last night .... just pathetic ... still have not slept ,,, tried to but was soooooo angry.

We are a one trick pony that everyone has worked out. If Ratten had some balls he would drop Fev for at least a couple of weeks and hand stevens his pink slip now. If we start winning without fev ... well then ... its a different kettle of fish. i know who do we play? all i can say is that sometimes I feel fev is more a distraction than anything else ... the team just looks for him alone. He is incredibly selfish, look at the two knocks he gave IRISH, who i thought was playing well until that happened.

You cannot blame a good first quarter then a quite game when everyone is kicking to fev with a dozen players hanging off him.

If fev is being tripple teamed does it not stand to reason that there should be other free forwards? But no the team just looks for the one trick pony.

what really drives me barking mad is seeing the scum get back down once they lose possession and then seeing our lot be so flowering lazy. I do not think we care about winning or losing (we do but ya get the drift) we just want 110% from everyone who pulls on the navy blue jumper ... god know we would all give up a kidney for the chance!

I have never seen so many fumbles in 4 quarters of footy ... it was almost hypnotic watching all the flower ups.

It really cheeses me off that we seem to have the same problems week in and week out. Everyone knows what they are so why are we not improving in these areas? Ratten has to take responsibility.

In the end we all love Ratts for who he was in his playing days but geez how long do we have to accept the same mistakes over and over again?

I mean FFS as someone else put it ... we are the scum's bitch.

Really thought we had the right motivation to come out firing and we came out flat again ... just happens too often ... and the blame lays squarly on Ratt's feet.

I really want to see him succeed but in the end you cannot be everyones mate and a good coach ... it does not work ... u have to be a ruthless SOB ... don't see Ratts with that attribute ... too busy tryiny to be touchy feely with all the players.

Well i will reserve proper judgement until the Freo game ... the axe better fall hard after that bit of rubbish last night. But just cant see too much happenning, yeah we will win next week but the same problems will surface again and again and again ... if Ratts cannot fix them then he is not that man for the job ....

Nuff said

This to me is the major problem and it is glaringly apparent in performances like last night. When we are down on confidence/energy/spirit, whatever you want to call it, we lack discipline, we lack structure, we lack composure, we lack determination. We lack these qualities, but primarily in a TEAM sense.

From start to finish Essendon* were willing to run hard to get more numbers to the contest, because they were disciplined as a team whereas we were not.

From start to finish Essendon* were willing to run hard and spread to provide options in attack, because they were disciplined in their structure/gameplan, whereas we were not.

From start to finish Essendon* were prepared to, as a team, shepard the guy with the ball so that in most cases he had the composure dispose of it skillfully. To be honest I don't know if we do this half the time when we do actually win.

From start to finish Essendon* were determined to put their body on the line and go in and get the ball first. They did this as a team and with their players having the discipline to get numbers to a contest, they won the ball and took it away. It appeared as though were just waiting for them to get it first so that we could tackle them.

These four things should be TEAM rules that if you fail to do, you fail to get a game, regardless of how skillful a player you are or what role you are playing on the day. The bombing it long to a contest down the line is a direct consequence of players not spreading to provide options in the middle and being afraid to take it into the corridor because we are not going to get the required protection from their teammates to do it successfully. Moving the ball quickly through the corridor should not be a question of confidence, we should know that if we do these team things, as a team down to every last man, that it will work. Sadly we don't have this faith, because these team rules are broken and there are no consequences to players who break them. This perpetuates a mindset that we need good players in our team to win, rather than good team players.

Carlton didn't play as a team last night, they played as a collective of individuals wearing the same jumper. I'm sick of it.

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STURDYISM!!

I think that is a very astute observation and has been happening since 2001. When the going gets tough it can bring people together or drive them apart. CFC gives every indication that it is the latter. Courageous leadership is required - now!

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

Exactly right which is why the MC take a stand and give a broom to
Stevens
Houlihan
Scotland
Banno
this week and regardless of how they play but so long as they give 100% tomorrow
Anderson
Robinson
Gartlett
Yarran


A no brainer because with the 1st 4 players we will go down the dunny.


And Fev as well
Not good enough
Hartlett or Edwards are not the answere but that aint the point
I am sick of Fevola and his dummy spits.


Line in the Sand
Simple as that

Agree..... a line in the sand MUST BE DRAWN NOW if Ratts and the MC/Coaching staff have any chance of regaining credibility. Ross Lyon did it last year with Dal Santo and Milne, and Kinights to a degree with Lucas.

One bit of play disturbed me last night, when Hayden Skipworth was able to win a contested ball against 2 Carlton players (just can't recall right now think one was Fisher) was able to get to his feet an run away from them and hit a target in the forward 50 - think it was Q3 from memory. Hayden Skipworth???

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17 4 10

I thought we had drawn our line in the sand in the Aints game. Nearly everything we say they should have done last night, they did that game. It just keeps getting back to the coaching staff........headed by you know who. Failure in tactics, failure to motivate a group of (presumably) good young men. No top 8 this year and Ratts will be on his way.

Refer Livolover's post at pg 1 of this thread - it says it all

Last night was a nightmare and when I checked the scores in today's paper that hadn't changed. I contacted the editor who unfortunately confirmed the scores. I will wake up soon and Juddy will be holding up No. 17.

Getting Paul Roos isn't a silly idea. He gets the most out of an average list. Imagine what he could do with ours. We may not play the prettiest footy but he at least he would have a game plan.

The hardest part is having to sack a favourite son.

Posting here is cathartic.

Nah mate sorry if we don't make finals this year Ratts goes immediately...by his own words. He set finals as the bar this year so I'm alsmost hoping we don't fall into the 8 cuz I just don't see him being capable of taking us all the way.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

We are IMO the most unprofessional team in the AFL. That should answer all of your concerns.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre