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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:38 am 
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formerly King Kenny
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99prelim wrote:
Rafalution wrote:
You give a great perspective 99prelim.


I assume that was not sarcastic. Thanks


No sarcasm involved.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:41 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:43 pm
Posts: 4745
99prelim wrote:
RATTEN (CARLTON)=BARTLETT(RICHMOND)
favourite son who cannot coach. Would Richmond have thought in 1980 that 29 years later they were still a rabble?????????
A couple of us believe that we are becoming another Richmond. 14 years since our last flag and still years away.
Right now we have a hack of a coach and take a good hard look at our list.....no flowering depth
I love Fev but Carlton will not get within cooey of a flag while we have Fev. He demands the ball, we kick it to him, they triple team him and so on and so on and so on.......
Judd can only get crunched so many times before his body packs up.

The signs were there against the Bombers in round 3
HE'S LEARNING GIVE HIM TIME!!!!
Then against the Freo at Carrara.......you know, that night that apparently saw our Prez boozing with the lads til 3.00 am alledgedly
HE'S LEARNING GIVE HIM TIME!!!!
Then there was that great strategic ploy against the Crows
HE'S LEARNING GIVE HIM TIME!!!!!!!
Sorry, forgot the Swans......"Wev'e got to beat them at the stoppages............"
HE'S LEARNING, GIVE HIM TIME!!!!!!

In between all that were a couple of honorable losses and wins against the Collingwood VFL side and WC......oh that the win against Brizzy, you know that win that we are all used to by now, the one that Fev gets us over the line witha about 7-8 goals. We can always count on those every 5 or 6 weeks. Unfortunately, it won't get us into the finals.
I said it about 6 weeks ago and I'll say it again. Forget finals in '09.
I thought Ratts was going to work. I was wrong, he's nothing more than a good assistant coach.
It all starts again round 1 2010 cos 2009 is done and dusted


POTW.

How sad it is that Bummers >>>>>> Blues (both on and off field). Who would have thought. Agree, we are rapidly becoming Tiges Mk II :yikes: (complete with a reliance on one Forward.....Fev = Richo)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:02 am 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:36 pm
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Location: WAGGA WAGGA
I don`t know about ratts coaching style but there`s one thing our list just does not have depth just yet


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:06 am 
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Robert Walls
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Location: Brisbane
I've been a jury out on Ratten type supporter. But we are treading water. We beat the teams we beat last year, and we lose to the teams we lost to last year. We're meant to be going forward. We fall for the same tricks against sides we've always fallen for. It was obvious in the first half when the game was close we were going to lose - why? Because we were trying to play Essendon*'s game. We've never beaten them at their own game before, so why was last night going to be different?

It is time we developed our own game and our own style, like Clarko did for Hawthorn last year, or Roos did at Sydney in 2005. Ratten might be the man to do it... but the evidence is quickly mounting that he isn't.

On another topic... it is time Ratten showed some real guts at the selection table. Until Stevens and Fev are dropped to show them they aren't dispensable (and to demonstrate the team is bigger than the individual), then Ratts looks weak to me.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:07 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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IMO, whilst there are issues within the FD that need fixing , I think it's too early to be making definitive calls on Ratts future worth as Senior Coach.

If we keeping boning Senior Coaches every 2 years we will end up like the tigers.

I'll make a call on him later next year.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:11 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
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Location: Nth Fitzroy
Some are saying Ratts doesnt learn from previous games and then say lets get Roos are not making sense.
Roos has been owned buy Malthouse for some time and Eade is starting to have it over him. No matter what he tries he just cant beat the Woods.

Ratts will be ok. Dont have to go nuts because of one loss and things not meeting the ideal. Both he and knights are still coaching teams they mainly inherited. We are still 3 or 4 players short. Stevens, Houla, Bannister all need to be replaced by better younger faster players who have been taught the modern game.

All the top sides over the last decade had a core of young players that have come through the sysem together. When they reach the 23 -24 years old and have 80+ games under their belt thats when they the team really fire. I see us being at our peak in 2012-2013. Before that we will be learning lessons, riding bumps and be up and down.

Its sad that our arch enemy have a style that destroys ours and it is hard to work out why our coaches and forward scouts cant work out how the bomber create the spare loose man but its just one of those things we need to keep working on.

Looking forward to the future but fully aware that there are going to be plenty more ups and downs.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:18 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: In the box.
club29 wrote:
Some are saying Ratts doesnt learn from previous games and then say lets get Roos are not making sense.
Roos has been owned buy Malthouse for some time and Eade is starting to have it over him. No matter what he tries he just cant beat the Woods.

Ratts will be ok. Dont have to go nuts because of one loss and things not meeting the ideal. Both he and knights are still coaching teams they mainly inherited. We are still 3 or 4 players short. Stevens, Houla, Bannister all need to be replaced by better younger faster players who have been taught the modern game.

All the top sides over the last decade had a core of young players that have come through the sysem together. When they reach the 23 -24 years old and have 80+ games under their belt thats when they the team really fire. I see us being at our peak in 2012-2013. Before that we will be learning lessons, riding bumps and be up and down.

Its sad that our arch enemy have a style that destroys ours and it is hard to work out why our coaches and forward scouts cant work out how the bomber create the spare loose man but its just one of those things we need to keep working on.

Looking forward to the future but fully aware that there are going to be plenty more ups and downs.



Whats sad is we have a coach who does the same things over and over again...and allows the same things to happen over and over again.

We're Essendons bitch!!!

Cos we wanna be...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:31 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9108
Location: Nth Fitzroy
Synbad wrote:
club29 wrote:
Some are saying Ratts doesnt learn from previous games and then say lets get Roos are not making sense.
Roos has been owned buy Malthouse for some time and Eade is starting to have it over him. No matter what he tries he just cant beat the Woods.

Ratts will be ok. Dont have to go nuts because of one loss and things not meeting the ideal. Both he and knights are still coaching teams they mainly inherited. We are still 3 or 4 players short. Stevens, Houla, Bannister all need to be replaced by better younger faster players who have been taught the modern game.

All the top sides over the last decade had a core of young players that have come through the sysem together. When they reach the 23 -24 years old and have 80+ games under their belt thats when they the team really fire. I see us being at our peak in 2012-2013. Before that we will be learning lessons, riding bumps and be up and down.

Its sad that our arch enemy have a style that destroys ours and it is hard to work out why our coaches and forward scouts cant work out how the bomber create the spare loose man but its just one of those things we need to keep working on.

Looking forward to the future but fully aware that there are going to be plenty more ups and downs.



Whats sad is we have a coach who does the same things over and over again...and allows the same things to happen over and over again.

We're Essendons bitch!!!

Cos we wanna be...



Yeah maybe you are right. My point that Roos is Collingwoods bitch also and doesnt appear to learn.

I also understand its going to be a while before the Blues become my ideal team. Just looking at the numbers and ages of all the top teams over the last decade compared to ours.

When Kruezer,gibbs,murphy, grigg,brown,betts,hampson, Jamison,bower, Yarran, Garlett,Robinson ,Austin etc all have 80 + games under their belts we will be a guns side. Its not ideal as everyone wants flags now but you have to be realistic.

The bombers pace is an issue because we let it become one. In time i believe our sheer power will overcome this just like the Cats flog them with a slower team.

Go Blues !


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:52 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:03 pm
Posts: 3510
Location: East Brunwick
Brett Ratten is shit at coaching, simple as that.

Defensive, negative, reactive and the players know this.

They are playing like a bunch of aus kickers


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:58 am 
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Bert Deacon
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:28 pm
Posts: 572
club29 wrote:
Some are saying Ratts doesnt learn from previous games and then say lets get Roos are not making sense.
Roos has been owned buy Malthouse for some time and Eade is starting to have it over him. No matter what he tries he just cant beat the Woods.

Ratts will be ok. Dont have to go nuts because of one loss and things not meeting the ideal. Both he and knights are still coaching teams they mainly inherited. We are still 3 or 4 players short. Stevens, Houla, Bannister all need to be replaced by better younger faster players who have been taught the modern game.

All the top sides over the last decade had a core of young players that have come through the sysem together. When they reach the 23 -24 years old and have 80+ games under their belt thats when they the team really fire. I see us being at our peak in 2012-2013. Before that we will be learning lessons, riding bumps and be up and down.

Its sad that our arch enemy have a style that destroys ours and it is hard to work out why our coaches and forward scouts cant work out how the bomber create the spare loose man but its just one of those things we need to keep working on.

Looking forward to the future but fully aware that there are going to be plenty more ups and downs.


You are obviously in denial. She will be sweet alright ! Its 4 - zip to Knights, and it is not the first time this season we have dished up this insipid crap, it just about every second game. There is a problem with the coaching team, the situation needs to be addressed. Lets not waste a year by living in denial.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:08 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:03 pm
Posts: 3510
Location: East Brunwick
Our list is not the problem its our coach.

When you are being to a coached by a reactive, defensive and negative coach who doesn't have a clear direction developing this team for a shot at the flag in two years. Just last week i read that he thinks that he got it wrong in the first half pushing the development of the side and now has switched to selecting a more mature team.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:17 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:13 pm
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Location: Missing Kouta
Melvey wrote:
He should have played Cloke, Warnock, Jacobs and Bentick :screwy:

Why are you including Warnock in that group when he hasn't played a game and isn't a lumbering ruckman?

Another educated comment like the comment you made about Austin not lining up against the Saints...


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:17 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
We were incredibly poor last night - in my view we were awful almost across the board, nearly everyone was befuddled, error-prone sluggish, lazy, scared - from young and old players - even when the game was alive. I haven't seen anything like it from Carlton since 07.

The performance was so out of character that I'm inclined to ascribe much of it to the week's break, and the players and coaches not handling it well.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:19 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9108
Location: Nth Fitzroy
my two cents wrote:
club29 wrote:
Some are saying Ratts doesnt learn from previous games and then say lets get Roos are not making sense.
Roos has been owned buy Malthouse for some time and Eade is starting to have it over him. No matter what he tries he just cant beat the Woods.

Ratts will be ok. Dont have to go nuts because of one loss and things not meeting the ideal. Both he and knights are still coaching teams they mainly inherited. We are still 3 or 4 players short. Stevens, Houla, Bannister all need to be replaced by better younger faster players who have been taught the modern game.

All the top sides over the last decade had a core of young players that have come through the sysem together. When they reach the 23 -24 years old and have 80+ games under their belt thats when they the team really fire. I see us being at our peak in 2012-2013. Before that we will be learning lessons, riding bumps and be up and down.

Its sad that our arch enemy have a style that destroys ours and it is hard to work out why our coaches and forward scouts cant work out how the bomber create the spare loose man but its just one of those things we need to keep working on.

Looking forward to the future but fully aware that there are going to be plenty more ups and downs.


You are obviously in denial. She will be sweet alright ! Its 4 - zip to Knights, and it is not the first time this season we have dished up this insipid crap, it just about every second game. There is a problem with the coaching team, the situation needs to be addressed. Lets not waste a year by living in denial.


Fair enough if that is what you think.

I am not in denial. I have just had a good look at things and think that is I think it will pan out. 2012 -2013.

Only time will tell.

On the Sticks as prez thing. Go down to training and ask him about the presidency. He is keen to hand it over to someone more qualified. He only took it on to hold down the fort for Pratt.
Someone like Fitzy sounds great.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:25 am 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:18 pm
Posts: 296
Location: Outside Demetriou's Office - shhh!
budzy wrote:
IMO, whilst there are issues within the FD that need fixing , I think it's too early to be making definitive calls on Ratts future worth as Senior Coach.

If we keeping boning Senior Coaches every 2 years we will end up like the tigers.

I'll make a call on him later next year.


If we have to wait that long our so-called premiership window could be shattered.

Melbourne, Freo and West Coast will have overtaken us


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:27 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
Club29 my problem with Ratten is comments like this

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

Quote:
“Sometimes if you don’t move the ball quickly in the back 50 then you play into their hands and they manned up very quickly and we played such slow footy.”


We have seen this happen ever since Ratten took over yet we have seen no improvement in this area.

So is he saying that if we don't move the ball quickly that we're [REDACTED]?

I'm sure there are plenty of teams that when they don't move it quickly out of defence still have the structures/player movement to be able to move it out of defence.

In this situation we bomb it down the line and hope to win the crumb...that's Pagan stuff.

Surely there should be some tactics in place to create space...you see the players standing still.

Why is there no movement? Where is the plan to make space for players to run in to?

Then you see how we defend when the opposition have it in defence.

We zone very poorly...but it doesn't even get to that because they do move the ball quickly out of defence.

However when they have a kickout and we have a chance to lock them down we don't. Why?

He's basically saying if we don't move it quickly out of defence first go then we're [REDACTED]! How can we possibly be so one dimensional?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:28 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
God help this once great club if we are clinging onto a 2012-2013 window. The number of permutations of what will happen both internally and externally between now and then are in the billions. I said it after all our losses and I'll say it again........SEIZE THE flower DAY. I will be over the moon if we can play one final this year. Right now, IMHO, we don't have a snowflakes chance in hades.
PS. Gibbs is going backwards in 2009. He is a minor worry for me. murphy is that far ahead of him it's laughable

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:32 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:03 pm
Posts: 3510
Location: East Brunwick
Kouta wrote:
Melvey wrote:
He should have played Cloke, Warnock, Jacobs and Bentick :screwy:

Why are you including Warnock in that group when he hasn't played a game and isn't a lumbering ruckman?

Another educated comment like the comment you made about Austin not lining up against the Saints...


I was being sarcastic


Last edited by Effes on Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Edited as per rule 2.1


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:36 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6427
Lets start by delisting
Houlihan Stevens Scotland and Bannister

If anyone can tell me that these guys are going to play in a flag for us in 2 years when they are all over 26 have reached their peak are not up to it. Stevens and Houlihan in particular

then you are a genious.

Get rid of them for god sake

This is not an over reaction because its been going on for years.
The game has passed all these guys by.

Feel sorry for Banno and bagpipes not the other 2.

Play kids


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:46 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:03 pm
Posts: 3510
Location: East Brunwick
keogh wrote:
Lets start by delisting
Houlihan Stevens Scotland and Bannister

If anyone can tell me that these guys are going to play in a flag for us in 2 years when they are all over 26 have reached their peak are not up to it. Stevens and Houlihan in particular

then you are a genious.

Get rid of them for god sake

This is not an over reaction because its been going on for years.
The game has passed all these guys by.

Feel sorry for Banno and bagpipes not the other 2.

Play kids


A bit harsh on Scottland don't you think? Remember he has done no training over the preseason and is starting miles behind the rest of the group


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