If only Ackland was made to earn his quid and Setant was left to settle and continue developing as a KPD....

_________________
There's so much I could say...

I can't recall Harts ever being dropped _ I might be wrong I have been before _ but his omissions from the side have been through Hammies - As I have said I haven't seen enough of him play to pass comment on him - just noted that he has been basically injury free for a while now and doesn't get a look in - When reports about his form have been good .

In the AFL these days Age is everything and can't be ignored you start going down hill at 26-27 so if you haven't peaked by then some serious questions are asked

It is almost at the stage where we start looking at end of year list movements

Cloke and Fisher both have contracts

Santy and Wiggins and Hartlett dont

I know whose shoes I rather be in at the moment

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

It's not that simple though. For mids, they need to show a lot before they get to 25. They can be replaced in the senior side by a first-year draftee in the next draft as Rich and Zeibell have shown. But ruckmen don't peak until 25 or later and don't fall off until they're over 30, and their draft replacements won't be ready for years. Key position types are in between, but tend towards the ruckman end of the spectrum. The years before 23 are mostly about development and the hope is that they can be dominant in the ages from 25 to 30 onwards. JK is only now coming into his own at the age of 21-2, and Gumbleton is nowhere to be seen as yet.

You bet this is a big one for him - If he gets selected and thats a significant IF because of who are due back - This game coming up he needs to grab it by the horns and cement his place in the side _ Playing as a forward - Decoy or not nothing less than 3-4 goals would be an acceptable performance against this mob - He is going to be the second target up forward if Fisher doesn't get recalled - So we cant be relying on Fev to kick 8 again

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

No, I'd expect to see him return goals + goal assists = 5 or 6. He's good value outside 50 spotting up targets inside 50, so goal assists are just as important as goals scored.

I'd expect to see him on the list next year. He's our second-best key forward.

I may not be the world's greatest expert - but I remember turning to my mate at the Gabba and saying "with that kind of play, O'Hailpin just guaranteed another 50 games easily".

He worked his arse off - reminded me a lot of that Geelong vs Collingwood game where I saw Thomas busting his hump for little reward from his team mates. AGain - if Simmo hadn't been pinged for a dubious "outside the 5" free, and Setanta marked and
goalled -he may have become a good avenue to goal that night....

From the effort he put in on Friday, I'd say keep him because he has been working his way into games quite well - and you always need players who'll try and do that..... Kind of like we keep praising Wiggler for......

_________________
Now stalking Carlton on Twitter and Facebook!

He reminds me of another big, awkward lug who filled the CHF position back when we were good.

I speak of Big Earl Spalding who's kicking skills were heavily criticized but delivered the goods because of his agressiveness and the fact that he either marked the ball or spoiled and brought the ball to ground for our little blokes.

Nothing fancy about Earl, just a good honest hardman.

We need Carlos to be our modern day Earl.

_________________
Heartbeat is optional

I don't give a flying toss if Fisher and Cloke kick 20 goals between them for the Bullants. I follow Carlton. They are an AFL side. Fisher and Cloke are borderline AFL standard.
Yarran coming????? At the moment, he can't even come off the bench and make an impact (> 3 years away)
Santy > 4 goals. Look, lay your cards on the table and state that you're not a fan of Carlos and you might get some respect around here. Otherwise, save your baiting drivel for "Talking Rabbitohs". Fev averaged just over 4 last year in his best year-ffs, what is it about sydneysiders and their understanding of sport?????????

BTW, can you regale us with tales of when, as you so beautifully put it, "I've seen Fisher kick multiple goals". his average before this seaso was something like 1.3. (Bullants games don't count)

_________________
If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

I thought I made it abundantly clear I am not a fan of Carlos

and where did I say I wanted him to average 4 goals a game - I said if you bothered to take your Santy Glasses i wanted 4 against Essendon*

And if you bothered to look back two weeks ago you might have noticed that Fish kicked 3 against Brissy - This is a feat that Santy has yet to achieve

I dont follow League by the way and spent most of my life living in Melbourne

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Send him home i'm sure we can find some use for him

_________________
Setanta Ó hAilpín 64 AFL Games 45 Goals

Up the Rebels All-Ireland Hurling Champions 2004/2005

You've said a lot Sydney, but if we created a collage of all the points you make agaimst Setanta and for Cloke, Fisher and Hartlett it would be classified as 'abstract'.

Your stats argument is weak.
Your arguments for Fisher and Cloke are antiquated.
Your argument of the present is non existent.

By the way the Cloke guns shots at his brother's place happened way after he dropped his form. I've seen that excuse used over and over again on Big Footy. Geez you're gullible. But I guess that happens if you depend on a kids' views on life and believe evrything they say.

Have a read of your points and your supportive empirical evidence and see how you don't continue along the, lets call it, 'strengths' of your argument. You misquote or deliberately misquote other posters. You don't support your argument, because you get found out and then you move onto the next point...the price of fish in Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia doesn't exist. Well just another made up bit of fiction.

Sorry Sydney, but I had decided not to have a go at your bias amd inaccurate posts because after all you are a Carlton supporter and no doubt love our team, but I will because you're looking for bites.

I like the fact you present an alternative view to discuss but the problem is you present rubbish when you discuss Setanta and dig yourself into an embarrassing hole. Try being constructive and accurate with your argument. Consistency helps. Stop making up stories. This is TC not BF.

Sure you're bringing out all the Setanta supporters and recent converts and that's great to see, but kids also read these forums and they might believe you; you know how kids are.

Now because of your line of intelligence, we have posters having a go at Sydneysiders because of your attempts to post in your 'convincing' manner/ style. No doubt you're convinced, but nobody else is.

My main home is in Bondi and I do get to see Carlton a lot in all states because I plan my business around them and I do go to Melbourne a hell of a lot because I have another home still there so I see a bit of Carlton and catch up with Carltonians, past players etc, but because I live in Bondi, I get lumped in with you and your garbage because Bondi is in Sydney; I dislike Sydney as a whole but I love spending time in Bondi.

Fellow posters as my Carlton Jumper states on the back of it:

Bondi Beach is Navy Blue.

Think then post and for god sake SB, it's fun for a while not to let the truth get in the way of a good story, but fair suck of the sav....you sound obsessed with Setanta being ahead of Cloke and Fisher. That's life, accept it.

I don't want Cloke in our first 22 whilst we are on the way up; he's too slow and he's been badly out of form this year. He has served his purpose. He was good for us 2 years ago. Did you read the Bullants reports on his efforts last weekend? If so, quote them and use them to support your argument why Cloke should be selected ahead of Setanta in the 22.

I don't want bloke's who are not knocking on the door in our 22. Setanta has had a very good year, week in week out since the season started. He deserves his opportunity. Where's your head at? Nobody is saying he's Brown Pavlich Reiwoldt God or Buzza.

Calm down and learn to give fairness a shot; it wont kill you. It's only an upcoming fringe player we are talking about and whether he should be retained at the end of the season. So far there's a compelling argument from the majority of posters to retain him come season's end, let alone encouraging the ideal to give him more time at CHF.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

1. Fisher kicked 3 against WC (he could only manage 1 against a Brisbane side sans Merrett, Padful and Drummond)
2. I want to beat Essendon* by 100 points. Doesn't mean that if it doesn't happen, it was an unsuccessful game.
3. Maybe if Setanta had been afforded the same amount of time in the forward line as Fish, he may have also kicked 3. Hard to kick 3 when you're minding LLoyd or going up in the ruck

Setanta will be at the club in 2010. At least 2 of Hartlett, Fisher, Cloke and Edwards won't.

_________________
If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Lost the arguement so attack the poster Bondi
My stats arguement is weak
You steer me in the right direction
Show me one set of stats that we measure all our footballers on that indicates that Santy has produced better football than Cloke or Fisher

Take Friday night 10 disposals 60 % effective
6 effective disposals in 82% TOG

You might be happy with that Bondi but I'm sorry I'm not

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

I didn't mind his game one Friday night, but some of his decision making was very ordinary.

_________________
Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Is sb bb?
Is bb sb?

_________________
Bawditawaba

Healey and co made special mention of Santy's game on the couch

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

BINGO !!!!

_________________
All my dangerous friends

The boys on On The Couch were happy with big Irishman.

Gerard Healy thought it was his best game for the Navy Blue.

_________________
“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

well if the boys on the couch said it - It has to be true

Go back earlier I said it was his best game ever - Friday night is as good as it gets


6 effective disposals

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws