Why?????

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Because Setanta is:

- is faster at ground level and is able to exert forward line pressure which Cloke and Fisher are unable to do.

- is faster and able to get to more contests which Cloke and Fisher are unable to do.

- you wouldn't have a player like Hodge line up on Setanta to run off him

- Setanta can play in just about any position on the ground and offer something - whereas Cloke and Fisher can only play forward - and Cloke can barely pinch hit in the ruck.

- Setanta has an "X" factor which Cloke and Fisher do not have.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

But so was Chambers and Prendagast

As I said X factors means he flowers Up a lot

Every Stat indicator that is used to measure a footballers ability disagrees with what Carlton supporters see in this bloke - Everyone of them from tackle to 1%ers to assists to kicks marks clangers the lot - I dont care how atheletic he is

He gets belted in the ruck
There are three of four in front of him for the defensive slots
and his output as a CHF is lacking

In two weeks we play Essendon* we are going to have Wiggins, Thornton , Fisher all available for the selection - Wiggins is normally always picked as is Thornton - Who are we going to drop to make way- Austin ??? Hampson ??? are we going to send these players of the future back to the Ants for this so called 'X' factor which we have failed to see in 5 years

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Wouldnt put him as a true CHF - play him out on the flank where he can create a mis-match.

Kreuzer at CHF.

Wiggins will struggle to get back for the Essendon* game and I reckon we roll the dice and keep Austin as opposed to bringing back Thornton. It may well be a game to have Fisher in to stretch Essendon*'s defence but he has to play deep.

Chambers and Prendergast were on our list because our list at the time didnt just have a bottom 6 it had a bottome 16 - although always had a lot of time for "Teddy" Prendergast he was a great clubman and the best trainer at the club and a terrific role model - unfortunately just wasnt quite up to it.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

I had to laugh listening to Parkin and Lane on the radio on friday night - Parkin said he had likened Santy to that of Earl Spalding and Spalding was straight on the phone the next day giving Parkin a gob full - Let Parkin know in no uncertain terms that there is no comparison

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

We're seeing your full arsenal of diversionary tactics being deployed now, SB. You're like a fighter plane spewing out chaff and flares to draw the attack away from the main target.

Why are you trying to suggest that Cloke and Santy are pretty much peas in the same pod? I'm sure you don't believe that. Pretty much the only things they share in common are that they're both tall and they've both been used in the ruck and up forward from time to time. Quite apart from the fact that Santy has the ability to play in defence and Cloke doesn't, they go about things much differently. Cloke tries to throw his weight around and take pack marks, and Santy uses his speed and agility to create opportunities. In the modern game, Santy is a mobile CHF and Cloke is a third tall best suited to playing deep inside F50.

The far more relevant comparison is between Harts and Cloke as they are pretty much the same size, have long kicks and mobility isn't their biggest strength.

You could get away with playing Santy and Cloke in the same forward line as they play different roles in different ways, but I don't think the same could be said of Harts and Cloke. The more pressing concern for Harts and Cloke, though, is whether there is room enough on the list next year for both of them.

Hmmm ... are you best off asking the chess player to compare chess pieces or do you ask the pieces themselves. I reckon the guy moving the pieces around might have a better idea.

I would delist Russell 10 times before I delist Setanta. Give him 2 yrs with no question

Haven't seen enough of Harts to pass comment on his ability so I wont

But Cloke is better than Santy - no question
So is Fisher
Austin not far of it
Wiggins also better

I am still waiting and waiting to see Santy's upside

I have seen Cloke kick 4 and give a good account of himself in the Ruck
I have seen fisher Kick mutiples of goals
I am impressed with Austin commitment and attack on the ball
I have seen Wiggins bust his gut and even slot 4 in a game


What have we seen from Santy- 1 stab pass and 1 goal in a game and this mystical thing called the X Factor - Oh yes he is an Athlete lets not forget that

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Silly me I forgot I have to compare Santy to Daicos- Brown, Carey ,Waite and Stynes - cant compare him to Fev as he is better on the lead than him

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

But you did compare Santy to Hitler, Stalin, and Attila the Hun, SB. Gee, this thing of making sh!t up is really cool! Much better than trying to come up with real arguments

How much more of argument do you want - I've brought up all his stats compared to players he competing with - Detailed his possessions - even said 2 of them were good

I don't compare him to evil dictators of the Past . I just put a bit of reality back into the discussion about him because quite frankly the plaudits he gets are simply way over the top - and I will stand by what I have said about him all along - If he wasn't Irish he would have been long gone

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

I wouldn't waste my time responding to your "arguments", SB. When you feel free to deliberately misstate my posts, there's not much point in doing so. So we'll just stick to throwing rotten tomatoes at each other instead.

Yes he should stay as I believe he has much more upside than others on our list competing for a CHF position apart from Hartlet who unlike Setanta has never been able to keep a regular senior spot at any stage in his career. I don't think Wiggins, Cloke or Fisher are going to play any better than what we have already seen.

Yes he is a fringe player at the moment to our best 22 but unlike Fisher, Wiggins & Cloke he can also play in defence or on a wing so can be used to fill holes in the first 22 in a number of ways when injury occurs.

Given he is injury free for the first time in a couple of years and if he can string some regular games together in the seniors I think as his confidence improves we will see that he can deliver much more than what we saw in last Friday nights game.

HUN article here

Santy, you naughty boy. SB thinks you should have been down there in D50 double-teaming Zac Dawson. There's no doubt that SB is a dispassionate and objective observer when it comes to you.

Good point yibbida.

I agree. But I would think with this being the last so called uncompromised draft for many years (minus the best 16-17 yo.s) I would look at taking a few rookies...turn over the ones we have now if we feel we can upgrade...get a mature rookie for a bit of grunt in the guts, a potential CHF and a couple of running machines.

I guess we can't have everything (like the old days) but we have to make the most of the opportunity presented.

Setanta should be kept.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Cloke is contracted for 2010 so we have to carry him.

If there was a choice between Cloke and Setanta you'd abviously go for Cloke, despite him lacking in mobility and pace compared to Setanta. Cloke is also shorter.

I remember Cloke's pace being exposed really badly in round 22 last year and I knew he was not the future. Setanta isn't perfect, but I can see more upside and being more useful than Cloke in every position we expect these big bloke's to play.

I could agree with some of your points regarding Setanta Sydney, but you seem to be scathing towards Setanta with exaggerations...kind of an unbalanced viewpoint. I keep thinking you may be right that he has peaked and isn't going to get better. But none of us really will know till he's given a chance and excouraged to show us his stuff as was Cloke, Wiggins, Fisher and Russell to name a few.

The point being is that we don't have to cut him at the end of the season. He's insurance at this stage imo; that's all.

Cut him some slack, he may impress.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

unless abviously is the opposite of obviously like asexual is to sexual, then you'll struggle to get any agreement for this:

Setanta >>>>> a retarded, blind and deaf mule >>>>>> Cloke

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Love Cricket? Love me

That's all OK to have that opinion, but I disagree with some.

Please oh god please don't bring back Cloke and Wiggins. I've had enough of both of them...maybe Wiggler may give himself a chance (a real outside chance to break into the team; definetely not CHF...give you the tip) but both of them faded so badly post round 2.

Sydney. you're living in the past especially with Cloke. Give up on him, he'll let you down again and again. Too slow.

Cloke was good as a retread when we were desperate for ruckmen, but a ruckman he aint, we've got Kreuzer, Hammer, Jacobs and Warnock way ahead of him there. He has a long way to go to get back in the team. Fisher is too slow too.

I love Austin, and there's no way I'd delist Austin before Setanta. The great thing though is we can retain both of them in 2010.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

if setanta was called roughhead and had teh exact same game on friday night we would all be rejoicing in how good our twin tower attack is

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.