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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:40 am 
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Bert Deacon
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Location: A Fevola punt from TEAC oval.
Santy had a debilitating injury that was blocking the blood supply to the lower part of his leg. He looks now to be starting to fire again ... he's been a project but a project that plays 51 games and can still keep his place in our 2009 team is a project that has been successfully delivered. A big risk and investment that has paid off for the Carlton football club. A huge X factor player.

Should Edwards or Cloke or Bentick or Hartlett go?? Yes.
Should Wiggins or Johnson or Hadley go?? Yeah they probably could as well.

Should Setanta go? No effing way. :evil:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:51 am 
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Rod Ashman

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conundrum wrote:
Rate Hartlett and Fisher and even Thornton ahead as forward marking options.


Can't agree with this. On what basis could anyone rate Harts as a better forward option? He has had about 3 games in 5 years, and doesn't even play CHF in the twos.
And when has TBird ever played forward. Has he ever taken a mark forward of the centre. He is a solid defender but he is not very quick or tall. He has good hands but it is much harder to mark when the guy next to you is just trying to stop you mark. If he is such a promising forward, why don't we play him there ever?

I like Fish and thought he was an unlucky omission but he can't kick over a jam jar and he goes to ground every time he contests. He is certainly a good contested mark, but does he have the pace to put on forward pressure? Be happy to have him very deep where his contested marking might hurt, but his possessions from 45 and further out just don't hurt the opposition.

I am surprised to find that a side screaming out for tall forwards has all these forward options waiting in the Ants.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:10 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Three weeks ago I thought his cards were marked, not so sure now. He does bring excitment to the team and he is clearly growing in confidence, that pass to Fev was magic.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:16 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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..like it or lump it, opposition can't afford to zone off Santy and double-team Fev cos he's too quick and works hard enough to always find space if he's not minded properly.. ..a few more games like these last couple and defenders won't give him as much space.. ..he's ultra competitive, and quick/agile enough to trouble alot of defenders and if he takes the 2nd best defender away from Fev he's helping already..

..either way, he's still been the most impressive at CHF out of everyone we've tried there this year.. ..so unless we've got a ready CHF under a rock, he should easily be there next year.. ..not like he'd be costing us premium bucks anyway.. (CHF's can be expensive)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:50 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:51 pm 
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Bert Deacon

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Out of curiosity, is it every time that Setanta plays in the forward line, he manages to snag a goal or two? If that is the case, then , with more experience and confidence @ CHF, he could be useful for a 2/2.5 goal a game average, with the occasional day out. As someone has pointed out, he could fufil the role of Cam Mooney and/or Mark Maclure- working hard around the perimeter (50m) to take the 2nd best defender and with Setanta's endurance and speed, he could wear out his opponents........ :thumbsup:

Plus, he a fellow Irishman- course you keep 'im! :smoking:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:53 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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The thing about Santy is that he's keen on improving his game. No doubt we've just about all played sports, and so we've all had the experience of practising skills during training but finding the challenge of implementing them in a game is too much. There's a tendency to stick with what you're good at and leaving the other stuff for the training track. That way you don't suffer embarrassment when skills under development don't quite work. Santy pushes through that mental barrier and works on new skills or rectifying weaknesses in a game, and that's the only way to consolidate improvement. When he stuffs up, you can be sure that the old footy cliche "He'll learn from that" actually means something. Rather than playing safely within his limitations, he pushes their boundaries.

When you look at his skills, they have improved dramatically and he is now a high-quality kick and handpass exponent. He has actually benefited from being a late starter. First, he is a naturally 2-sided player as he learnt both feet at the same time, and secondly he doesn't have any hard-to-eradicate bad habits that Aussies pick up in junior footy before specialist coaches can work on them.

With the kicking, he has mastered both basic types of the drop punt on both sides of his body - the stabbing/push kick used for short-passing in which the pelvis remains vertical, and the kick-for-distance where the pelvis angles backwards 30 degrees or so. The stab-passes to Fev on Friday night and Eddie Betts in the Doggies game I50 were as good as you'll see. And the long passes to Fev and Hammer I50 in the West Coast game were very effective. He operates high on the risk/reward scale - he takes risks in trying to come up with the most incisive and attacking possible kick rather taking soft options to make sure he doesn't make errors. When it doesn't work, it can look terrible, but when it comes off he kills the opposition. He is capable of kicking over 50m, and that's not really something you can say about guys like Fish and a number of others on our list. He also has mastered kicking around his body. When he ripped the ball out of a ruck contest in front of goal against the Hawks and kicked across his body with his right foot to score a goal, he was doing what he's already done a number of times in games already (dating back a couple of years in fact when he did it against Collingwood). In one of the Bullants games earlier this year, he ripped the ball out of the ruck at HF/W and kicked a long LEFT foot kick across his body I50.

He hasn't really shown us more specialised kicks, such as the torpedo, the banana kick, or the arcing Daicos-style kick along the ground. But I wouldn't be surprised if he's practising them right now and unleashes them in games this year or next. The chances are he'll mess up initially, but then will find his feet so to speak and will start pulling them off.

As for handballing, that was initially a weakness. He tended to resort to handball only when he was under physical pressure, and when tackled they'd just dribble out indiscrimately. He is now very accurate and usually finds a target even if he's being tackled. Ordinarily, he shoots the handballs out flat rather than looping them, and that makes it a weapon as with the flat handball he delivered to Juddy for the winning goal against Brisbane. He even unleashed an extravagant 30m handball to Fish 60m out against WC that wasn't such a flash idea because it gave their defenders time to get to Fish. No doubt he'll leave it for a better time in future, but it's in his repertoire now.

Marking remains the weakest skill, but it's obvious that the coaching staff and Santy are now concentrating on it to good effect. He actually has a safe pair of hands - his issue is more one of judging the flight of the ball. He took a magnificent mark on a long, fast lead recently with his arms extended fully in front of him - Fev couldn't have done better. He's also showed that he can take marks above his head safely. And he's showing that he can take good marks as the 3rd man up leaping over the wrestling players. I think his development in judging the flight of the ball has suffered because he's been ignored as a marking option and I suspect he's been asked to be a decoy. That's changing, and I expect him to rapidly improve in this area. In the last quarter against the Saints, I thought they were really starting to look for him, and Juddy in particular seems to be intent on using him when he's open.

For now, however, I hope they use him as a fast-leading forward. He's less a Riewoldt and more a Scott Lucas in his prime. To my mind, Lucas has never been a high-marking forward like Riewoldt, but he played to his strengths by establishing a break on a long lead before doubling back on his left and unleashing long raking kicks I50. If the good kicks like Stevo and Houla can deliver raking passes to Santy which practically eliminate the need to guage the fall of the ball, then he'd be spectacularly effective. The other skill I'd love to see him develop is the one that Carey and Jonno Brown have made their own, the ability to lead their opponents under the ball before doubling back I50 to take the ball on the run into goal. There's no doubt he has the agility and the speed to turn his opponents inside out.

If his team mates continue to look for Santy on the lead, then that will make life so much easier for Fev. If Santy continues to improve in that regard, it won't be too long before the opposition has to put real work into ensuring someone drops back in front of him. That will dilute the concentration on Fev. And I reckon that Fev's eyes would light up when he sees Santy take the ball and turn towards 50, as he knows there's every chance it will be delivered quickly to him before the opposition defenders have time to converge on him. As with Waite, he reminds me of a shark as he's a naturally attacking and direct player.

We have to remember that Santy has a good 5 years left in his prime, just as Stynes had at his age. We're not talking about a guy like Nathan Brown who might only have one good year left in him, if that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:00 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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After Friday nights performance he should play every game for the rest of the year and finally be given a chance to develop his game in one position. CHF is a major deficiency in our side. Considering the way he played against the Aints, there's no doubt there will be plenty of improvement to come and he could end up being the player that we so desperately need to fill that void. Come next year when Waite is back in the side, we'll have the ability to throw him (Waite) into pretty much any position on the field.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:31 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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The mere existence of this thread has me worried on a couple of levels.

We are trying to build to a premiership here people. We should not be working backward to win the stuffy cliché AFL side of the year award. Geelong have that one wrapped up for the next several years running and yet Hawthorn beat them in the big one last year.

We have to face up to what we are and try to build within that framework. If that includes an enigmatic Irishman then so be it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:31 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Indie wrote:
The thing about Santy is that he's keen on improving his game. No doubt we've just about all played sports, and so we've all had the experience of practising skills during training but finding the challenge of implementing them in a game is too much. There's a tendency to stick with what you're good at and leaving the other stuff for the training track. That way you don't suffer embarrassment when skills under development don't quite work. Santy pushes through that mental barrier and works on new skills or rectifying weaknesses in a game, and that's the only way to consolidate improvement. When he stuffs up, you can be sure that the old footy cliche "He'll learn from that" actually means something. Rather than playing safely within his limitations, he pushes their boundaries.

When you look at his skills, they have improved dramatically and he is now a high-quality kick and handpass exponent. He has actually benefited from being a late starter. First, he is a naturally 2-sided player as he learnt both feet at the same time, and secondly he doesn't have any hard-to-eradicate bad habits that Aussies pick up in junior footy before specialist coaches can work on them.

With the kicking, he has mastered both basic types of the drop punt on both sides of his body - the stabbing/push kick used for short-passing in which the pelvis remains vertical, and the kick-for-distance where the pelvis angles backwards 30 degrees or so. The stab-passes to Fev on Friday night and Eddie Betts in the Doggies game I50 were as good as you'll see. And the long passes to Fev and Hammer I50 in the West Coast game were very effective. He operates high on the risk/reward scale - he takes risks in trying to come up with the most incisive and attacking possible kick rather taking soft options to make sure he doesn't make errors. When it doesn't work, it can look terrible, but when it comes off he kills the opposition. He is capable of kicking over 50m, and that's not really something you can say about guys like Fish and a number of others on our list. He also has mastered kicking around his body. When he ripped the ball out of a ruck contest in front of goal against the Hawks and kicked across his body with his right foot to score a goal, he was doing what he's already done a number of times in games already (dating back a couple of years in fact when he did it against Collingwood). In one of the Bullants games earlier this year, he ripped the ball out of the ruck at HF/W and kicked a long LEFT foot kick across his body I50.

He hasn't really shown us more specialised kicks, such as the torpedo, the banana kick, or the arcing Daicos-style kick along the ground. But I wouldn't be surprised if he's practising them right now and unleashes them in games this year or next. The chances are he'll mess up initially, but then will find his feet so to speak and will start pulling them off.

As for handballing, that was initially a weakness. He tended to resort to handball only when he was under physical pressure, and when tackled they'd just dribble out indiscrimately. He is now very accurate and usually finds a target even if he's being tackled. Ordinarily, he shoots the handballs out flat rather than looping them, and that makes it a weapon as with the flat handball he delivered to Juddy for the winning goal against Brisbane. He even unleashed an extravagant 30m handball to Fish 60m out against WC that wasn't such a flash idea because it gave their defenders time to get to Fish. No doubt he'll leave it for a better time in future, but it's in his repertoire now.

Marking remains the weakest skill, but it's obvious that the coaching staff and Santy are now concentrating on it to good effect. He actually has a safe pair of hands - his issue is more one of judging the flight of the ball. He took a magnificent mark on a long, fast lead recently with his arms extended fully in front of him - Fev couldn't have done better. He's also showed that he can take marks above his head safely. And he's showing that he can take good marks as the 3rd man up leaping over the wrestling players. I think his development in judging the flight of the ball has suffered because he's been ignored as a marking option and I suspect he's been asked to be a decoy. That's changing, and I expect him to rapidly improve in this area. In the last quarter against the Saints, I thought they were really starting to look for him, and Juddy in particular seems to be intent on using him when he's open.

For now, however, I hope they use him as a fast-leading forward. He's less a Riewoldt and more a Scott Lucas in his prime. To my mind, Lucas has never been a high-marking forward like Riewoldt, but he played to his strengths by establishing a break on a long lead before doubling back on his left and unleashing long raking kicks I50. If the good kicks like Stevo and Houla can deliver raking passes to Santy which practically eliminate the need to guage the fall of the ball, then he'd be spectacularly effective. The other skill I'd love to see him develop is the one that Carey and Jonno Brown have made their own, the ability to lead their opponents under the ball before doubling back I50 to take the ball on the run into goal. There's no doubt he has the agility and the speed to turn his opponents inside out.

If his team mates continue to look for Santy on the lead, then that will make life so much easier for Fev. If Santy continues to improve in that regard, it won't be too long before the opposition has to put real work into ensuring someone drops back in front of him. That will dilute the concentration on Fev. And I reckon that Fev's eyes would light up when he sees Santy take the ball and turn towards 50, as he knows there's every chance it will be delivered quickly to him before the opposition defenders have time to converge on him. As with Waite, he reminds me of a shark as he's a naturally attacking and direct player.

We have to remember that Santy has a good 5 years left in his prime, just as Stynes had at his age. We're not talking about a guy like Nathan Brown who might only have one good year left in him, if that.


And he must get back from the mark as quickly as possible to take advantage of the options as they unfold 180 degrees around him.

Well put Indie.

In a nutshell, Setanta has nearly completed his apprenticeship and has a lot of upside.
Furthermore, he'll do well for the team if the players look for him just as Judd has.

I think he's the best CHF we've got atm and I've always wanted him in the last line.

Look he has more versatility than most of our talls on our list.

As I've always said: he's our insurance policy in the first 22. Not of the same ilk, but similar to Waite and Walker....imo.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:43 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:43 pm
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No brainer. YES :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Santy is coming on quickly as a CHF now, and his marking on Friday night was pretty good. The pass to Fev and that last goal he got was also excellent. Adds energy, height, and an increasing amount of creativity. Sure he'll make the odd blue (e.g. that shanked attempted pass in the first half), but let's leave him at CHF for a while and let him grow into the role.

And look at our other options for now:

Hartlett :eek:
Edwards :yikes:
Fish :roll:
Cloke :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:24 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Great post Indie!

I'd love for Setanta to be the inside 60 target 10-12 times a game, assuming he puts himself in the right place often enough. His football skills will improve the more he's involved.

His goal zigging and zagging through traffic was the highlight of the night for me. If he stays true to coaching instruction (often an issue) he can still develop into a dangerous player. The key is getting him to the stage of being a legitimate marking target rather than the world's tallest crumber, and he's definitely showing promise there.

Agree that Judd is noticeably the guy who looks to get him into the game


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:04 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Unless there's a better option he should keep getting picked. If he plays at Friday's level then you keep him.
I hope next week he gets the opportunity to smash Lloyd, then Mcphee, if he does that and nothing else for the season....I'd still re sign him :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:16 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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DesEnglish wrote:
Unless there's a better option he should keep getting picked. If he plays at Friday's level then you keep him.
I hope next week he gets the opportunity to smash Lloyd, then Mcphee, if he does that and nothing else for the season....I'd still re sign him :thumbsup:


I don't want him to be smashing Lloyd 'cos he'll be smashing them at CHF!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:28 pm 
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Bob Chitty
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aramari wrote:
Great post Indie!

I'd love for Setanta to be the inside 60 target 10-12 times a game, assuming he puts himself in the right place often enough. His football skills will improve the more he's involved.

His goal zigging and zagging through traffic was the highlight of the night for me. If he stays true to coaching instruction (often an issue) he can still develop into a dangerous player. The key is getting him to the stage of being a legitimate marking target rather than the world's tallest crumber, and he's definitely showing promise there.

Agree that Judd is noticeably the guy who looks to get him into the game


Juddy obviously lacks the prejudice that saw so many "teammates" consistently ignore his leads in previous games as a forward.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:34 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Warby wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
Unless there's a better option he should keep getting picked. If he plays at Friday's level then you keep him.
I hope next week he gets the opportunity to smash Lloyd, then Mcphee, if he does that and nothing else for the season....I'd still re sign him :thumbsup:


I don't want him to be smashing Lloyd 'cos he'll be smashing them at CHF!


Yeah but lloyd has been skunking his way down the ground looking for cheap kicks from his junior teammates. Hoping Santy can give him a "bump" somewhere around the wing (or the head).


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:41 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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RiverRodent wrote:
aramari wrote:
Great post Indie!

I'd love for Setanta to be the inside 60 target 10-12 times a game, assuming he puts himself in the right place often enough. His football skills will improve the more he's involved.

His goal zigging and zagging through traffic was the highlight of the night for me. If he stays true to coaching instruction (often an issue) he can still develop into a dangerous player. The key is getting him to the stage of being a legitimate marking target rather than the world's tallest crumber, and he's definitely showing promise there.

Agree that Judd is noticeably the guy who looks to get him into the game


Juddy obviously lacks the prejudice that saw so many "teammates" consistently ignore his leads in previous games as a forward.


Correct - there are a few players that are old school in that they look after their mates, they need to be disciplined. Some of the younger players will be intimidated by Fev into passing to him and they need to be schooled.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:05 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Oh Mav you just got to love your enthusiasm for this bloke

No doubt friday's effort was his best we have seen , so from that

He has reintroduced the stab pass that left the game in the early seventies
Is better on both sides of his body than most others because he didn't pick a bad habits as a youth
will soon be snapping goals like Daicos
Is better on the lead than Fev
Compared to Lucas who has over 70 goals to his name in a season something Santy could only dream about
He will develop into a Carey and a Brown
He is not unlike Waite
And much like Stynes


Please Please Please give us a break :donk: :donk: :donk:

Lets look at his greatest game

First two possesions in the first quarter shots at Goal - Both missed
Picked up 6 in the second 3 of which resulted in turnovers and one was a complete and utter shank that resulted in a StKilda goal
Didnt get a touch in the third
Managed two in the last one the so called stab pass and the other a goal where he did do a nice baulk but got a lucky bounce

8 kicks 2 hanballs 5 marks 3 tackles

And if I am not mistaken played on Blake and Dawson and was on Dawson when he slipped forward and kicked the sealer

Remember this is Lucas like and similar to Waite. Wont be long and Brown and Carey will appear

Fishers game last week that saw him dropped was better
If Cloke had put in that performance their would be screams to linch him at the nearest telegraph pole
All of Russells efforts this year were of the same quality if not better


Lets just cut the crap about this bloke and look at him for what he is an honest trier at best who has been fortunate enough because of his physique to play 50 odd games


Should not be kept and will be lucky to survive two to three more games

Friday was as good as it gets for Santy

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:48 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Gee, resorting to the straw man argument shows just how desperate you've become SB. If I were naive and thought you really did misinterpret my post as saying that Santy is as good as Jonno Brown and Carey, for instance, I might try to explain why you're mistaken. But we all know your game is to deliberately misstate my post so you have at least something to attack. For me, that's almost as good as you admitting that you're wrong. Actually, it's better as each of Santy's forthcoming games will be like a new blow for you. You're like the poor bug ger being stretched on the rack - it's getting worse for you and at some point you won't be able to keep on going, but it's enjoyable watching you squirm.

By the way, did you like the jobs he did on Jonno Brown and Pavlich last year? The MC did - they gave him votes in the B&F. Shhh ... we'll keep that as our little secret.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:59 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Sydney - Blake was on Setanta at the end.

Dawson, by my reckoning, went forward in the last quarter and played the quarter there when the game went 1 on 1. I think Dawson started on Setanta and Blake was loose but they switched

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