Bear with me:

Round 1 - Kick to Handball Ratio of 1.39 - WIN
Round 2 - 1.46 - WIN
Round 3 - 1.35 - LOSE
Round 4 - 1.36 - LOSE
Round 5 - 1.26 - WIN
Round 6 - 0.84 - LOSE
Round 7 - 0.99 - LOSE
Round 8 - 1.27 - WIN
Round 9 - 0.90 - LOSE

It was clear in Round 6 that we were trying to add the handball to each landed kick to run around the Hawthorn zone, but we still lost (only just).

Other than that all 4 of our wins have been with a clear preference of kicking to clear (1.25 or greater) and 3 of our 5 losses have been with a handball preference. Do we not just have the list to play a run forward and handball game particularly in defence like Port have tried for years, and as currently used by others?

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

We been concentrating and focussing on kicking, the link with handball Its not practiced enough so we fail to do it with fluency.

The teams that we are no good against - HAwks, Crows, and Saints all play the style of footy where you have to take them on through the middle with handball to beat their zoning. We are trying this but are not good enough at it to win .....yet .

We handball nackwards and to stationery targets, there is little flow or movement, too stagnant.

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"I had to eat"

When we do this.. we are a school of tuna running into a net put up by the opposition coaches(fishermen) for us .......

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

We can go on about gameplans but we have a couple of issues......our skill level doesnt allow for any high possession plan or overusing the ball........some of our players need remedial skills, Armfield is a nice goer but a butcher by foot, Wiggins is very brave but cant kick straight, Fisher cant kick over a jam jar...Simpson no right foot....etc etc.....you want to play cute footy with a list that doesnt have the tools to get the job done....good luck.

Even Murphy and Gibbs of late are unreliable by foot.....

Handball running game requires good decision making...not a noted strength of players like Russell and Armfield for example...

You want to play cute handball happy football then get the cattle on the park who can make it happen......some of our players are not developed enough with their skills/minds and might never be.....

Or get a coach who can conjure a gameplan to suit the cattle we have.......Pagan wanted long to a contest...well that didnt work and Ratten wants cute through the corridor to a forward line that is vacant......and thats been embarrassing...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

We flat out suck at handballing. I am honestly shocked at how bad the skill is at the club.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Round 10 - 1.15 - WIN

The structures thread got me thinking that maybe our defenders as taller players are naturally more comfortable kicking from defence rather than the shorter more mobile players who prefer to handball from defence?

Do tall people kick more than short people?

Or just our defenders?

TALL

Thornton - 133 to 82
Waite - 132 to 46
Fevola - 108 to 18

SHORTish

Judd - 142 to 134
Murphy - 127 to 135
Scotland - 68 to 80???

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Oops Kreuzer has 49 kicks and 88 handballs

(but doesnt run it out of defence)

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Agree.

Did you see the Swans vs Bulldogs match - 1st-2nd quarters?

Two different uses of handballs.

1) swans had 5-10 handballs in a row going in a 10 metre square on the backline... it went 5 metres forward at most, and if you don't zone off but actually attack them it comes undone.

tackling is the key. geelong know how to tackle and unlock anyone who tries to play the handball game.

2) bulldogs, in contrast, had a guy taking a mark and then a bloke sprinting by for the handpass. No guesses for who won that match.

Bec it is hard to master

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It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it

To me it's confidence thing. If you get 22 players all running and backing each other in then it works. If just a few can't tow the line either physically or mentally the chain of handballs breaks down. That's what makes Matthew Knights' coaching effort so impressive IMO, his ability to inspire confidence in his young side.

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You want the flame? Give us the marbles!!

We don't have enough players that are good enough at the handball caper to use it as a matchwinner .

Overuse of the handball has brought us undone in the losses we have had . Put the bloody thing on the boot if possible !

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Get the facts first.
Then you can distort them at your leisure.

this is one of the more interesting threads i have read in a while - well done

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The glass is neither half full nor half empty. Rather the glass is twice as big than required.

The whole point of a handball game is to have a quick relief of pressure. Usually one backwards then one inboard to a man running free past the line and to kick under less pressure.

It was interesting listening to Lee Matthews commentating on the game and the dreamteam score of 1 point for a handball and 3 points for a kick. He suggested that a kick should be worth 6 points due to their speed in moving the ball and effectiveness in retaining possession.

Whilst teams like Geelong have a lot of handballs it is mainly to create the man who has space to get a good kick in.

I think the handball moreso than a kick relies on your nearby team mates knowing where to run, because the ball is going to come onto them quite suddenly, whereas with a kick, it can be weighted and you can steer them in a direction.

Some of our blokes don't know where to run, and some of them don't know where to send the runner. As that understanding develops we'll hopefully put some good loop on our handballs, but I still think our technique is well below AFL standard. Diesel has helped, but it's definitely a fixer-upper.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I have to agree with that summation Elwood.

We have a lot of good players, but players with a well rounded skillset have to be developed and/or recruited.

I believe we can improve the handball skill and kicking skill of some to get to the level required, but not all of them.

On the coaches game plan, whilst having been a critic, I believe that Ratts is learning the hardway about his troops' capabilities and what is the best approach with the current group. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I do know that when we did run it through the middle with confidence and no fear of mucking up in the two proceeding NAB carnivals we looked good (and a bit like Knights' game plan).

With that said, it suggests that we can nearly pull off a handball running game, and improve with more practise...so that leaves me thinking the problem is an issue with the game plan, the instuctions and/or the capacity of the players abilility to comprehend and visualise the game plans.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

There you go...it's the cattle that are at fault. But is the tuition effective?

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I think a lack of experience with AFL level tempo can be used as a legitimite excuse for poor disposal in a lot of cases.
As our young guys get used to the hustle and bustle of AFL they'll settle into ther play much better IMO.

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There's so much I could say...