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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:22 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Kaptain Kouta wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
Synbad wrote:
DownUnderChick wrote:
I'm reading this thread and had to look to see what thread I was in as it seems errirly like the Ratts can't coach thread.

Or perhaps the same argument going on in that thread is also going in here.





Perhaps youre not reading it closely enough?

There was an appointment made by friends of an ex player with decision making powers to a guy with questionable skills to coach us. Thats unprofessional and if it goes belly up it moves up tthe scale to Negligence.


True...a bit of leeway here DUC. The purpose of the thread is not Rattens coaching as such but rather the lack of process that got him there. My concern is that lack of process will hinder our revival as such and I reckon thta deserves to be discussed.


So you actually know for an indisputable fact that there was a lack of process which ended up with Ratts being appointed?

Big call.


Of course!

Thats why im unhappy....

Cos the process was undisputably wrong and doubts are thrown up.
So the process doesnt fill me with confidence for where were at.

Its abit like Karma...

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:24 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:20 am
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Synbad wrote:
Belisarius wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Belisarius wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
Quote:
Ratten "needed answers" did he??
Thats laughable.....


That's history...you know it happened. But read my post again...rumour, innuendo...the Voss approach was where the lack of professionalism lay. Swann didn't want any of that...he prefers to drive the rumour train rather than have it coming in the form of tabloid 'Caro', 'Smith' and 'Hutchy' articles. You know that too.

Quote:
Same kind of hurrying into a decision for an extension as well i take it???


You tell us Synbad

Quote:
He was AFL unemployed till Sticks got him back into the system .


Think you'll find the recommendation came from David Parkin that Ratts was AFL ready. Again...Carlton nepotism...it works well sometimes...it doesn't for others...in this instance - the jury is still out.







Cos there are no real checks and balances in the whole set up and the process..

Now maybe if Ratts was someone else.. and had won our prized coaching job.. (cos i dunno about you or others who think its something to just give away.....).. but i think it should be a prize and treated like one...

... maybe if the due dilligence was made and someone actually won our PRIZED JOB.. the man who is in charge of turning young men into champions and this club into a champion side.. id be more believing..

But unfortunately the job was treated like a lotto ticket and was gifted to a mate... without all the checks and balances put int place.. and all due dilligence required to pay respect to what is one of the three most crucial positions at the club.
So how can i believe in him?

And over and above that because those in power handing the position out as cheaply lose credibility also.

Cos thats how it goes...

Now Sticks can duck and weave about bringing in O'Reilly to the club .. and once when asked if he was responsible he did the predictable thing and replied "We were all responsible for bringing OReilly to the club"
The person that asked him the question asked again... "All; of you?"
"All of us " answered Sticks.
To which the guy that asked the question replied if all of you can get together and make that decision without a single person arguing he wasnt even a regular player.. the lot of you should fall onto your swords"

See its all about common sense isnt it?
Whilst it might be a good idea on the surface to just appoint Ratten ... the common sense approach would be to do it right... and that way whoever gets wins job has no questions over his suitability....

Its always answers like "Parkin thinks he was the right man"... its pretty funny and sad at the same time....

I hope Ratts turns it around... but really hes always going to be under the pump unless he can turn it around as his position was delivered to him without due dilligence.
And the decision makers should not be allowed to decide on crucial matters concerning the club in that manner again... its detrimental to our great club and its not very hard to turn into a Richmond...

Terrible decisions in the past have cost us in our modern history... we dont need them perpetuatiing themselves cos of a Boys Club mentality.

Ratts can right it ... but he will need to win a flag!!!



I don't think you hope Ratts turns it around at all to be honest. You want Sticks gone and by extension Ratts as well.

Just as it can be argued that some are giving Ratten too much leeway due to past service to the club, to you he will always be tainted due to his links to Sticks and his questionable selection process. I totally agree that due diligence wasn't done and that was a worry, but that also doesn't mean he can't coach. Despite evidence to the contrary in the first half against the Crows :oops: :sad:

I also agree with your statements in other threads that you don't surround an inexperienced coach with inexperienced assistants. The Lappo appointment to me was a puzzling one. I'm not sure how being a key member of the worst team in our history, who used an antiquated gameplan (only slight exaggeration :grin:) gets you a gig. Not to mention being put in charge of the forwards when he is good mates with Fev :eek: Teague's appointment could also be questioned, but from what I have seen he is a very impressive young man, who communicates well and seems to be doing a good job with the Ants. He could be an example of the appointment process being wrong, but the outcome being right :thumbsup: Time will tell.

You raise some good points Synbad, but just like those who you see as Ratten apologists, you have your own biases. I really don't think Ratten will ever win you over... no matter what he does.


You do realise i want wahts best for the club dont you?
% wise i doubt Ratten and Sticks are best for the club .(underqualified and have their spots due to mateship circumstances)Sticks is in the box often enough... and he is president..!!!... hes a bozo as a president.. i do not question his loyalty to the club.. just his fingerprints are on everything thats wrong.....or strange... including his standing as president.
We have turned alot around off field and that didnt come because of mates.
On field where mates can still have an impact i BELIEVE were treading water.

If Ratts can turn it around im happy.... but i seriously doubt it. He is illustrating how out of his depth he is and if we dont make the finals this year... year wasted!!!


"Whats best for the club." An interesting concept that has had a multitude of different meanings to those who have ever used the phrase or have thought about how it relates to their club.

Just as wanting what is best for the club doesn't cut it for you with Sticks and Ratten, I'm not sure it makes you right either. I don't think the issues are as black or white as you like to paint them. You have made some good points in the various threads, but I think you dismiss other valid concerns, because you want Sticks (who probably does lack the "gravitas" to be president) and Ratten gone. Anything that doesn't suit your basic premise is just branded as irrelevant.

Curiously you question the credentials of some of our coaching staff, because they have been out of the AFL for various periods, yet you have your own opinions on how we should be playing. Just to clarify...how long have you been out of the AFL? :razz:

I do believe you want what is best for the club...just as long as Sticks especially and Ratten are gone. I really don't think you will be totally happy, no matter what success we have as long as they are still at the club. I think to a certain extent that clouds your judgement and has turned a number of complex issues into one of "we just need to get rid of a few ex Carlton players and everything will be apples." I just don't think it is as simple as that.



Yes i do question the coaching staff experience and think theyre dodos of the past ressurected into football... and judging how they are coaching im right.
Again im not coaching i just know what looks sick.

I do want Sticks gone cos he is the reverse King Midas... everything he touches turns to shit when it comes to running football clubs... He has proven that time and time again.

I dont necessarily wish to see Ratts go.. though im not and never have been happy with the appt.. I do want him to be capable of coaching though. If he can do this without setting us back too long ill be ok with him.
I did see him the day before he went to Melbourne and he was introducing his young children to the Carlton trophy cabinet and all the pariphenellia.. not knowing when and if he will be back.
Ive never questioned Brett the Carlton man...the Carlton servant.. or the the Carlton player.
Lovely guy !

I have however questioned the appt.. and whether we need a coach before a supporter in charge.He has done very little to suggest he can coach.. and his performances are going down hill.
Part of the problem is we didnt take due dilligence to leave no stone unturned to make sure there were no hiding scorpions upon his appt.
Ratts the 3 time best and fairest(Though i do believe one of them he shared with Campo robbed Kouta) , premiership player,club captain does not necessarily translate into a capable coach....

Its up to Ratts.. and if i were he i wouldnt be filling my coaches box with ev teammates especially those that have been far away from coaching or playing recently.

Now Belisarius... this is no 'Nika Riots'... there are no 'Greens' here... only Blues!! :thumbsup:


"Nika riots"...very clever :smile: :thumbsup:

Just as being club captain etc etc doesn't mean he can coach, having Sticks as part of the selection process or lack thereof doesn't mean he can't coach either. It doesn't have to have been a poisoned chalice. The process was wrong no doubt, but was the outcome...to me the jury is still out.

There are also a number of other factors at play here that have been canvassed in other threads that I know you have disregarded, but to me indicate that just changing the coach will not make it all better.

We will have to agree to disagree on this, in this thread at least, as I think we are heading into whether Ratts can coach or not territory :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:03 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Synbad wrote:
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
Synbad wrote:
DownUnderChick wrote:
I'm reading this thread and had to look to see what thread I was in as it seems errirly like the Ratts can't coach thread.

Or perhaps the same argument going on in that thread is also going in here.





Perhaps youre not reading it closely enough?

There was an appointment made by friends of an ex player with decision making powers to a guy with questionable skills to coach us. Thats unprofessional and if it goes belly up it moves up tthe scale to Negligence.


True...a bit of leeway here DUC. The purpose of the thread is not Rattens coaching as such but rather the lack of process that got him there. My concern is that lack of process will hinder our revival as such and I reckon thta deserves to be discussed.


So you actually know for an indisputable fact that there was a lack of process which ended up with Ratts being appointed?

Big call.


Of course!

Thats why im unhappy....

Cos the process was undisputably wrong and doubts are thrown up.
So the process doesnt fill me with confidence for where were at.

Its abit like Karma...


And the thing is we didn't need to make a hasty decision...this is what concerns me the most. That at a time when we owed the supporters totally professionalism (after years of rubbish) did we screw up again???

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:36 am 
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Robert Walls

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Our lack of professionalism will come back to bite us.......... that is why he should move heaven and earth to get Paul Roos coaching our club

This club needs a proven coach leading this club. We've made so many poor decisions in the past no wonder why we're seem to be going backwards

The reason why the Bombers are going well is because majority of that list was coached by Kevin Sheedy at a stable club with good leadership. Matty Knights is debatable but Allan Richardson is not (and was mentioned on 3AW the other night that if you the selection policy included player development he'd be a certainty)


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:04 am 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:20 am
Posts: 548
Melvey wrote:
Our lack of professionalism will come back to bite us.......... that is why he should move heaven and earth to get Paul Roos coaching our club

This club needs a proven coach leading this club. We've made so many poor decisions in the past no wonder why we're seem to be going backwards

The reason why the Bombers are going well is because majority of that list was coached by Kevin Sheedy at a stable club with good leadership. Matty Knights is debatable but Allan Richardson is not (and was mentioned on 3AW the other night that if you the selection policy included player development he'd be a certainty)


Why Roos... Sheedy is already available :razz:


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:30 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Proven coach - dont think their is anything in Denis Pagan's contract with the Northern Knights preventing him from taking a senior coaching job.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 5:47 pm 
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Robert Walls

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How did we pass on Daniel Rich


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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 5:48 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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There goes a broken "78".

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 7:13 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
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Melvey wrote:
How did we pass on Daniel Rich


the kid is incredible. I don't see why people get so touchy when Rich gets mentioned. An amazing footballer, and nothing wrong with asking the question...I don't know if we made the wrong call but self-censorship is silly. A lot of Carlton fans will be thinking the same thing.

Go Daniel!
Go Chris!


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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 7:39 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
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Your call on Daniel Rich is a fair one but:
How can the whole comp pass on Jeff Garlett?
How did Austin last until 30 plus pick?
How did Eddie Betts last until the PSD?
Rich maybe a better long term prospect but don't right off Yarran yet. All we have learnt is he maybe a preseason away.
Overall our recruiters have done a stirling job and that includes picking Gibbs over Selwood.


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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 9:38 pm 
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John Nicholls

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Move heaven and earth to get Eade.


:smile:


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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:10 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Gary Ayers (when the Homer drool button?)

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