+1

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Yeah cause we are drowning in talented 'genuine' forwards aren't we...... how forgetful of me

Fev's almost cooked.

Cloke is a hack

Fisher too, well not a hack but not up to it.

Wiggins is second rate.

Hartlett maybe? but isn't a genuine forward.

Aussie? wishful thinking.

Edwards....... we've all heard stories about him (cough cough)

I haven't heard anything about Edwards. I actually remember that when he was drafted the word was he had great leadership qualities

HAMMER

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Hammer Waite and Kruise

Robbo Yarran and Betts

Garlett Judd and Gibbs

AJ (yes AJ) Austin and Walker

Warnock Browne and Murph

enough talent there for a good forward line without mentioning Fev Houla Edwards Tiller Hertlett Fisher Grigg Cloke Carrazzo
who could all play forward.

My six in a year or 2's time (and say Fev goes down to allay your fears)

HF - Walker Austin Yarran
FF - Betts Waite Garlett

(with Judd/Hammer/Kruise/Murph/AJ and Gibbs all swinging through there).

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Scotland Jamison Thornton
Grigg Waite Bower
Simpson Murphy Gibbs
Yarran Walker Stevens
Betts Fevola Robinson

Warnock Judd Hadley

Kreuzer Houlihan Russell Browne

LOL @ Kreuzer on the bench and 1AW at CHF.... You just don't go putting a bloke that can't lift his arms above his head at CHF. Got to play to your strengths.

Just poking fun here. The 22 names are good and it would've been tough to leave out Austin, Hampson, etc.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Kreuzer changing in the ruck obviously, hoping that Warnock can hold down the No 1 or 2 spot, if not then hope that Hampson improves enough.
Kreuzer will be the best ruckman in Australia within three years.
Walker at CHF is obvious to me, we don't have any other viable option and Murphy does the job well for Footscray, Walker would provide plenty of headaches for opposition teams, his foot skills aren't great but he's very good by hand and I can see plenty of lightning fast handballs getting dished off to our runners, who apart from Simpson can all finish.
If he can't cope at CHF due to his injuries then he can't cope anywhere.
I'm yet to be sold on Austin, Joseph, Garlett, Armfield etc. but I remain optimistic, Carazzo could slot in somewhere as well.
Barring injury we'll have a very solid team by this time next year.

different positions put pressure on different parts of the body and different skills. CHF requires the ability to take marks overhead on the lead. If, as we've been told, the latest surgery really tightens down his shoulders, overhead marking will not be a feature of 1AW's play. He can be a running weapon off half back (though he'd need to raise his arms depending on match up to spoil) has great on-baller attributes, and showed plenty late last year as a mobile attacking forward flanker / pocket.

Judd, almost for the first time in his amazing AFL career, can take overhead contested marks. Do you think that fact may affect how he is used in future?

Genuine forwards not make shift forwards.

Genuine ones are hard to find just ask Fev himself

Cloke has had very similar surgery to Walks, and although he doesn't take too many overhead marks it has been one of his few strengths this year.
I can't see the point in playing an inferior player at CHF simply because of his height, some say that Waite is an option but he's too valuable in defence in my opinion.
Walker has the skill, speed, endurance and body strength to play the position.

Walker is the perfect wing player IMO .............. Speed, power, endurance, decent skills (not perfect). Would love to see him taking the ball on a wing, breaking lines with his speed and passing it into the forward line. Can't see him playing as a CHF, arguably the most physically grueling position next to ruck, esp considering his injury history. CHF need to be crashing packs and taking marks, and I would prefer to see him playing a couple of seasons injury free on the wing than interupted seasons due to the shoulder popping out every 10 weeks due to the heavy hits taken at CHF

Waite is our ideal CHF IMO, he has improved a hell of a lot after his role in the backline, has taken his game to another level as seen in last weeks quick 2 goals, can take a great mark, can kick a goal, and adds a lot to the defensive pressure in the forward line. I can see the backline growing as a defensive unit, releasing to play Waite in the forward line.

Waite not genuine
Betts
Yarran
Garlett
Robbo
Judd
Gibbs

and I tell yas Melves have a look at Hammer's first quarter - when those marks start to stick Oh my God!


Kruise is a genuine forward - just happens to also be a genuine ruckman

the rest are unknowns though I like the way Austin moves

none of them may be Fev

but together they can pack a punch the equal of any forward line

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

oh and just on that genuine thingy
was Johnno a HFF or a centreman?

Maclure a CHB or CHF?

Jezza a HFF or a FF?

Swan (who came to Carton hoping to play ruck rover) a CHB or CHF

SOS a FB or FF


many players can do more than I thing.....

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Yeah, most Carlton supporters want Waite to play forward but I'm not one of them.
I think he's a natural defender who likes the ball in front of him and likes to run in straight lines.
He can play forward for sure, he's such a good player that he can play virtually anywhere, but half back is his best value to the team in my opinion.
We don't have a crash and bash CHF and I can't see any potential candidates in the near future so Walker could play a similar role to Murphy at Footscray who is very effective at CHF.
His shoulder is just as likely to pack it in on the wing as anywhere else, he's either fit enough to play or he isn't.
Let's hope he is.

Whilst I agree that Walker can play CHF and even CHB, I would have him in a running role; that's his advantage over most others.

I don't like the idea of him crashing into packs nor do I like the idea of backmen crashing into him when he's standing under the ball due to his susceptible shoulder.

He is a bonus in the forwardline and I uld be happy with him at HF. There he's a proven headache for opposition coaches.

Personally, I still like the idea of Walker along with Waite to play as our swingmen because both have defensive and attacking attributes, and the marking ability and pace to get to where the ball is going to be. If only we could afford that luxury

We have a fantastic midfield group with great skills by hand and foot and if we can compliment them with the best ruck combination, the mobile Warnock, Kreuzer and Hampson, then we have the luxury of allowing one of them to present as a tall option in the forwardline, allowing Waite and Walker to play the swingman role.

At present, we know we have Fevola and Betts our dangerous KP and crumber.
We also know that Robbo and Houla are natural forwards.
We also know that Russell, Carrazzo and Houlihan can play the defensive HF role as well.
Yarran and Garlett will develop and have something to say about the make up of the forwardline.
There's midfielders who are good forwards as well...Simpson, Stevens, Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Scotland and Grigg.

What a luxury. We can't fit them all in the forwardline, but have a look at the flexibility and ability for Ratts to proactively stay one ahead of the opposition's MC.

I honestly believe Austin and Thornton are flexible enough to be given a KP forward role too, but may be very important for us in defense if we are to release Waite from the backline, unless Jamison and Bower can hold the KP roles and one of the above settles for the 3rd tall.

I really believe that 2009 is the year we will arrive. Hawks proved anything can happen and it was their last 6 rounds leading up to the finals which helped them build a momentum and confidence to carry that form till the very last game when it's a 50-50 proposition, where the best team on the day takes the flag.

It's early days, only 8 rounds played and we are t 4-4 and could easily have been 6-2. WE may do a Hawthorn post round 16.

We have a list which is considered to be very very good by the opposition captains and we all know that too.

Injury will determine our destiny in 2009. Anything can happen.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Poor planning if you ask me.

This club had the opportunity to rebuild this list many years ago and all it needed was someone the vision to make the hard call.

- We could have traded Fev = First rounder (we know have a aging forward)
- Traded away Thornton = First rounder
- Not traded away pick 3, Kennedy and 20 for Judd (judd about to hit his peak and we are a few years off)
- Not trading pick 20 for Warnock

The past few years has seen us part way with Kennedy, pick 3 and two pick 20's. Thats four more quality kids we could have on our list but in return we gained Judd and a player who has yet to play a game.

Our list would have looked something like this

Walker
Murphy
Kennedy
Russel
Gibbs
Grigg
Bower
Hampson
Krooze
Morton
Yarran/Rich or Ziebel
+ 2 first rounders (thornton and fev trades)
and 2 two pick 20's. Thats 15 players picked inside 20 picks

Add to that
Browne
Armfield
Garlett
Robbo
Betts
Jammo
Jacobs
Johnson
Anderson

with Seniors
Waite
Simpson
Scottland
Stevens

I know this club was screaming out for a leader like Judd but it came at a price. Its unfortunate that the position the club was in. the lack of leadership, poor management and a coach fighting for his survival that no plan was thought out. Piggy Dunstal was instrumental in forming that premiership side, he backed his judgment in, made the tough calls and it has paid off.

We got Armfield through the Judd trade, Melvey.

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Lawrence Lawrence, The man who knows all the rackets and all the racketeers!

With so many kids in our ranks the most important piece of the puzzle was the one we lacked the most, a genuine Leader. With a player of Judd’s calibre the kids can see first hand what it takes to get the most out of yourself.....

In other words Judd is the most important piece of the puzzle by the proverbial mile.

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.