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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:33 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Wrong selection again. Selectors did half the job

wiggins needed to be dropped for Setanta
Kruezer to play as second lead up forward
Setanta second ruck with Hampson.

That way Hampson, Kreuzer develop in the appropriate positions


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:35 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Michael Jezz wrote:
Setanta second ruck with Hampson.


I don't think you'll need 2 tomorrow.

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:41 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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bondiblue wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
deano35 wrote:
budzy wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25240500-5018700,00.html

CARLTON
B: Bret Thornton, Michael Jamison, Jarrad Waite
HB: Dennis Armfield, Paul Bower, Nick Stevens
C: Kade Simpson, Chris Judd, Heath Scotland
HF: Jordan Russell, Simon Wiggins, Bryce Gibbs
F: Eddie Betts, Brendan Fevola, Aaron Joseph
Foll: Matthew Kreuzer, Richard Hadley, Marc Murphy
Int: Mark Austin, Shaun Hampson, Mitch Robinson, Chris Yarran
Emerg: Steven Browne , Brad Fisher, Setanta O’hAilpin

In: Mitch Robinson
Out: Cameron Cloke (omitted)


Poor Browney :cry:


Yep.

At least they didn't drop Yarran and Austin. I was worried Fish would play at there expense

Does anyone else find it strange that Cloke isn't an emergency.


Indicates to me that Cloke is out injured and O'hAilpin has replaced him as an emergency.


How did you get to that conclusion?

Cloke has failed week in week out as a tall marking option and I would suggest that he was on his last warning last week (should have been on his 5th warning by then) and again he failed to make a yelp.

He was dropped, ommitted, discarded, sent to the Ants to find some form and hopefully take a mark against some shorties. He has not been able to regain some of his 2008 form (not that it was outstanding, but he definetely showed a lot of heart and took some good marks).

The conclusion I draw from the selections is that Setanta has been in better form than Cloke, is definetely faster, and the penny has finally dropped for the MC that slow players are not going to help us win games.

In the Ants where he belongs with another slow tall forward: Fisher.


Pretty much what Budzy said. Cloke was in the 25 man squad Thursday and Setanta has since replaced him.

Its unusual and normally indicates Cloke was replaced in the squad through injury.

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:42 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Michael Jezz wrote:
Wrong selection again. Selectors did half the job

wiggins needed to be dropped for Setanta
Kruezer to play as second lead up forward
Setanta second ruck with Hampson.

That way Hampson, Kreuzer develop in the appropriate positions


I agree about Wiggins...but would have thought an extra runner at the 'G' would have been the way to go...i.e. Garlett or Ando for instance...

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:18 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher

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Rumour has it Browne in for Wiggins!


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:24 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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JackBlack wrote:
Rumour has it Browne in for Wiggins!


That would make sense if true.

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:06 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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JackBlack wrote:
Rumour has it Browne in for Wiggins!



any particular place this rumour eminates from?

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:14 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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JackBlack wrote:
Rumour has it Browne in for Wiggins!


Don't tease me! :grin:


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:30 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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JackBlack wrote:
Rumour has it Browne in for Wiggins!

Bring in Grigg and Walker for Stevens and Scotland and I'll be a happy man. :cool:


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 11:03 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Kouta wrote:
JackBlack wrote:
Rumour has it Browne in for Wiggins!

Bring in Grigg and Walker for Stevens and Scotland and I'll be a happy man. :cool:


When fit yes, would prefer Russell out instead of Scotland though.

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 11:10 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Pies say Medhurst and Swan are right

Quote:
"They're all right to go, I wouldn't expect any changes," Walsh said.

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:26 am 
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Robert Walls

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Effes wrote:
Pies say Medhurst and Swan are right

Quote:
"They're all right to go, I wouldn't expect any changes," Walsh said.


Two of the pies emergencies didn't play in the VFL on saturday so expect two late changes.


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 7:20 am 
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Craig Bradley

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club29 wrote:
keogh wrote:
Beware the injured side

And we have been ordinary from the second half of round 2


I hope we lose
Ifind it hard to say it but I do because the MC had a chance to make a statement and they havent

Thornton good mark and good on the one on one contests but is too slow doesnt kick the ball with enough purpose
Inshort not good enough

Stevens no defensive skills weak efforts game has caught up with him

Wiggins and Russell do not have footybrains. Good in some areas but simply not up to it consistently at AFL level
Cloke too slow
Hadley not good enough. poor kick too slow seems like he plays injured


Yet after a pathetic efffort against the Dockers only Cloke gets dropped.

I find that simply unbelievable

IMO Stevens shoud be dropped. He has become a liability to the team
Wiiggins last 5 weeks have been ordinary. Not good enough.
Hadley not good enough

Thornton can be spared the hangmans noose for now but defenders need to attack with purpose and he doesnt do this


Perfect opportunity to bring in Anderson, Browne and O'hailpin who I reckon for some reason makes us a better team

I would have Ando in defense. Would love Armfield on the ball.He would add grunt to it.

nd one change Pathetic MC

One win from 5 matches

If we lose It must mean we have to take a new path.

The MC is weak and rooted



I reckon THornton will play forward. Looked like that at training today.

I agree with some of your points there Keogh but you have called so many things "pathetic" lately it has lost its punch.

If you are expecting a flag in the next two years you may aswell take a break from footy. It takes a lot longer unless you have a lot of luck and some freakish talent like the Hawks. It takes time to sift through the list and ease players into the big league. Be patient and you will be rewarded. No point stamping your feet and demanding wins when you really have no clue what is going on at the club. Slow and steady wins the race.

Once you get down to training and talk to those close to the action you realise all the bits and pieces that pop up on sites like this are of no real relevence to what is really going on.

On the news they showed Davis training and said he was playing. Medhurst didnt train with the main group however.




If we keep playing the players I mentioned we wont go anywhere. They are not good enough.
I know whats going on and dont have to be involved at the club at all to know that the MC dont have th balls to fess up that these guys arnt up to it and youngsters like Anderson and Browne deserve their chance. Ellard could be handy

Efforts like last week shouldnt be tolerated.

Also the morale of the group on the field has been shit

Saw it with my own 2 eyes at the SCG close up club 29
Dont have to be at training to see that
Look 4 losses in 5 matches
Second half against Brisbane ordinary
Santy is in and out of the side because Ratten doesnt rate him
Yet Wiggo, Stevo,Russell keep getting a game
Now club 29 I am a patient man but watching last Sat nights game on the box and seeing the same shit my patience ran out

This is 2009 not 2006 or 2007

We will probably win today because Collingwood are undermanned.

In saying this Collingwood look like a pacy side this week
Wouldnt suprise if we get beaten.

I reckon I do have a clue mate and I dont have to be involved at the club or rock up to training to see that.


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:02 am 
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Rod Ashman

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I agree certain players have been consistently poor or ordinary.
However, I am not yet convinced that our young'ns such as Anderson, Browne, Ellard etc... have 'earned their chance'. Just because they are younger, doesn't mean they are better. I reckon we are sometimes so disillusioned with some of the guys playing (& the selectors) that we just want to kick & scream a better team into place.
From the admittedly limited amount I have seen of these younger players, they have failed to inspire. I do like Armfield's zip and attack and am happy he is being given a go but I think he has really forced his way in, as distinct from some of the others.
I love Robbo but think he was lucky to get in based on last week's Bullants performance - think it had more to do with how bad cloke was than how good he was.
I also think Yarran was given his opportunity b/c of his potential rather than having proven himself worthy.
I guess its a bit of a conundrum to judge whether to drop players if they don't perform well whilst simultaneously promoting players who haven't really performed that well?
But I would love someone to explain all the support for Anderson, Browne & co.

PS. What is the deal with Grigg? Still injured?


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:04 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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bondiblue wrote:
...I don't care that Setanta and Houla are dropped or sidelined, I'm concerned that Ratts has chosen to retain players who are playing worse footy than the 2 who he's dropped...


If I had my way none of the 4 players your ranting about, Cloke Wiggo Setanta and Houla, would be in the senior 22 and at least 2 of those wouldn't be on the list next year.
Looks like Ratts agrees with me.. doesn't it?

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:06 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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17th Premiership wrote:
...What is the deal with Grigg? Still injured?


Carlton Injury Update Tuesday 13 May 2009

Adam Bentick – Knee – 4 weeks
Andrew Carrazzo – Finger – 3-4 weeks
Shaun Grigg – Ankle – Test
Lachie Hill – Hamstring – 3-4 weeks
Sam Jacobs – Foot – 4 weeks
Chris Johnson – Thigh – 1-2 weeks
Darren Pfeiffer – Shoulder – 6 weeks
Andrew Walker – Shoulder – Indefinite
Robert Warnock – Foot – 4-6 weeks

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 9:23 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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budzy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
...I don't care that Setanta and Houla are dropped or sidelined, I'm concerned that Ratts has chosen to retain players who are playing worse footy than the 2 who he's dropped...


If I had my way none of the 4 players your ranting about, Cloke Wiggo Setanta and Houla, would be in the senior 22 and at least 2 of those wouldn't be on the list next year.
Looks like Ratts agrees with me.. doesn't it?



I'm not sure what Ratts is doing TBH.

I know he's been carrying players and shouldn't be doing that.

The only one with class in that lot is 4 is Houla, but if he isn't doing the team things or can't then yeah, his days are numbered.

But if Ratts decides to play players in positions where they will add value, by playing them to their strengths, and I'm talking about Houla as a bona fide forward, then everyone will know if you are correct, let alone Ratts.

In 2-3 years the above 4 I doubt will be on the list and then we'll have other avearge players to question.

We will never have an all Australian team, but the MC can massage a group of A and B grade players to play as a team which is what is required to win flags.

Today is not a real test imo, because the Pies have many missing, but will indicate whether the team is on par with the Pies' 2nds (with a close win) or the players and MC have taken some big steps to improve as a team (with a slaughter).

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 9:35 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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bondiblue wrote:
budzy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
...I don't care that Setanta and Houla are dropped or sidelined, I'm concerned that Ratts has chosen to retain players who are playing worse footy than the 2 who he's dropped...


If I had my way none of the 4 players your ranting about, Cloke Wiggo Setanta and Houla, would be in the senior 22 and at least 2 of those wouldn't be on the list next year.
Looks like Ratts agrees with me.. doesn't it?



I'm not sure what Ratts is doing TBH.

I know he's been carrying players and shouldn't be doing that.

The only one with class in that lot is 4 is Houla, but if he isn't doing the team things or can't then yeah, his days are numbered.

But if Ratts decides to play players in positions where they will add value, by playing them to their strengths, and I'm talking about Houla as a bona fide forward, then everyone will know if you are correct, let alone Ratts.

In 2-3 years the above 4 I doubt will be on the list and then we'll have other avearge players to question.

We will never have an all Australian team, but the MC can massage a group of A and B grade players to play as a team which is what is required to win flags.

Today is not a real test imo, because the Pies have many missing, but will indicate whether the team is on par with the Pies' 2nds (with a close win) or the players and MC have taken some big steps to improve as a team (with a slaughter).


I agree.

But some of our B & C grade players' weaknesses outweigh their strengths leaving the team open for the opposition to exploit. Some are just not good enough to help get us to the summit.
We've held on to too many for too long, IMO.

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:45 am 
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Ken Hunter

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..budzy, i agree with yer sentiment, even if we may disagree with the players in question.. .. ..but considering how bad a team we had, we had to keep some players on longer than neccessary.. ..i reckon over the next couple of years we can manage our list properly..

..or hope we do..

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:52 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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budzy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
budzy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
...I don't care that Setanta and Houla are dropped or sidelined, I'm concerned that Ratts has chosen to retain players who are playing worse footy than the 2 who he's dropped...


If I had my way none of the 4 players your ranting about, Cloke Wiggo Setanta and Houla, would be in the senior 22 and at least 2 of those wouldn't be on the list next year.
Looks like Ratts agrees with me.. doesn't it?



I'm not sure what Ratts is doing TBH.

I know he's been carrying players and shouldn't be doing that.

The only one with class in that lot is 4 is Houla, but if he isn't doing the team things or can't then yeah, his days are numbered.

But if Ratts decides to play players in positions where they will add value, by playing them to their strengths, and I'm talking about Houla as a bona fide forward, then everyone will know if you are correct, let alone Ratts.

In 2-3 years the above 4 I doubt will be on the list and then we'll have other avearge players to question.

We will never have an all Australian team, but the MC can massage a group of A and B grade players to play as a team which is what is required to win flags.

Today is not a real test imo, because the Pies have many missing, but will indicate whether the team is on par with the Pies' 2nds (with a close win) or the players and MC have taken some big steps to improve as a team (with a slaughter).


I agree.

But some of our B & C grade players' weaknesses outweigh their strengths leaving the team open for the opposition to exploit. Some are just not good enough to help get us to the summit.
We've held on to too many for too long, IMO.


See that's a good point you make.

SWOT analysis may suggest they are not worthy on the list.

So far, Wiggo and Cloke have been tried and tested as forward targets in the first 7 rounds. Houla and Setanta haven't, so to find out whether they make good forwards for the team or not they should be given an opportunity. Houla has been a rotating midfielder and Setanta has been a pinch hitter.

Fail or succeed, doesn't matter, it's knowing their true value for the team that counts for me in 2009.

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