First time on Pro and Cons but thought after todays effort needed to vent some bile

pros

Judd (feel for him and his workload ... absolute champion!) Cannot give him enough praise.
Murphy - love da smurf!
Waite - versitile, useful week in week out
Krooze - Geez he`s a gun, other more experienced players could have a look at his passion and commitment! He`s a hard nut!
Last 5 minutes (115 minutes too late)

cons
first 115 minutes woeful, embarassing effort. Worst game in donkeys years ... rate this worse the 100 point loses under Pagan ... we at least had excuses ... this loss does not have one IMO.

Cloke and Wiggo (surely they must make way now), especially Cloke ... four words ... HAS NOT GOT IT! Invest time in someone who has the potential but maybe not the skills yet if need be, hate to see week in week out his insipid performances. At least with someone who has potential and maybe not the skills we will see improvement week in week out. Cloke IMO is going backwards ... and at world record pace!

Ratts - have been a real believer in Ratts but his record is starting to look worrying now. Yes he has the players behind him but I am really struggling to see an effective gameplan ... a plan B or C if A does not work. Class moves during the game when something is not working. Fixing our glaringly obvious problems that keep on rearing thier ugly head .... I mean c`mon we killed them in inside the 50 and got beat again! More points! Our defence gameplan is a complete joke compared to genuine finals contenders. Not to mention our kick outs, clangers and turnovers that cost us goals, the softness of the players, and finally and most damning our gameplan for when we do not have the ball ... I mean that is why we seem to lose with more inside 50s! The opposition seem to be able to waltz into thier 50 quickly and allow thier forward etc quality ball while we are harrassed and put under pressure and deliver crap into the 50 ... case in point today`s effort. This all has to rest firmly on Ratts shoulders.

Stevens - a lot of people have been rubbishing him for a while on the forum ... I am officially joining the band wagon ... SOFT! Thank God, Allah, Buddha and all the other religious icons that we did not make him Captain ... At least we have a Captain who leads by example

Do it for Pratt 0-2 since the legend found eternal rest ... hope he did not see todays effort.

So many more cons but just too gutted to write more.

One final point ... I understand there will be highs and lows from this team until it properly clicks (its young and inexperienced) but today was just a huge joke on all the loyal supporters I mean Essendon* was bad enough BUT FREO!!!

We have gone from contenders to pretenders .... AND WHAT IS WORSE ...

I FEEL LIKE A FRIGGIN RICHMOND SUPPORTER NOW!!! AND Essendon* IS STARTING TO HAVE THE SEASON WE SHOULD HAVE HAD!!! even worse!!!!!!!

Maybe a bit too much bile... but sure does not feel like it!

Cant agree with yr call on Jamison - he's a developing key defender who will make mistakes however the way the ball came into their forward line tonight (generally with little pressure) makes it very hard for a defender.... to play for as long as his shoulders hold out this year (they are still not right). He's the first picked in the backline most weeks IMO.

Pros- We are still in the 8
-- judd, murphy and ......sut sure anyone else deserves a mention

cons-

-- Russell. Surley time for him to get dropped this week and made to earn his spot in the team
-- Cloke. WTF!! If people here think that we are a top 8 team with Cloke as our centre half forward must be delusional!
-- Wiggings tries hard but shouldn't be in the seniors
-- Fevela, Thornton Stevens... The attitude and work ethic of these senior players is nothing short of disgracefull! If possible (which it isn't) you love to drop all three just on poor attitude and body language.
-- 'snip'

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"what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger"!

Pro; I'm sure the boys have had a lovely couple of days up in the sun. They still got paid this week after all. They played that way as well.

At least Bower smashed Pavlich.

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The only way for some people to understand is for them to be on the receiving end

Left wing moralists
In self serving denial
They shit me no end

My thoughts exactly.

Cons

Ratten for persisting with Wiggo and Cloke in our forward line.

Senior players down on form when they desperately needed to show some leadership, Simmo, Stevens and Thornton come to mind. Hadley gave his man too much lattitude xome to think of it

TC Poster embarrassing themselves by targeting two blokes who could hold their heads up, in Bower and Russell. Pavlich had a very ineffectual game and Russell had one of his better days.

Too many players with poor disposal. Turnovers hurt us yet again, particularly out of defence

Pros

The usual suspects who will need to have hernia operations, in Judd and Murphy for carrying the team yet again. Murphy has taken the next step this year in my opinion.

Austin and Yarran, did enough to suggest we persist with them for the rest of the year regardless of form because they represent our future.

Conundrum

To pissed off to write too much.

Another small loss means JACK especially against Freo.

We don't help our forwards however Cloke is not the answer. Unfortunately we only have more genuine mid field options in the Bullants however Setanta would be a better option than Cloke. Kruizer needs to be developed at CHF even if it means that we will be smashed in the ruck. What would have Kruiser learnt tonight? NOTHING - Sandilands will always beat Kruiser in the ruck he is so much bigger and I must say I did not enjoy watching Kruiser battle so hard in the ruck with little reward. Teach the kid CHF after all we need a CHF, he has shown us he can take a grab and kick a goal.

Watching the Bombers last night makes me even more sick. I thought we had the better list but maybe we don't and if we don't we should be ashamed. We have had the best picks in the draft in the past 5 years. They did exacly what we should have done against the Hawks - take them on and break their zone.

Even tonight we stopped and propped and allowed Freo to clog up space in our forward line. It's so simple most weeks we dominate the ball however when we turn it over in our forward line the opposition has a field day in picking out forward options on the rebound EASY GOALS. We must move the ball quickly ala Essendon*, give FEV a bloody chance.

We are losing games not because of our endeavour but because we lack nouse and footy smarts.
We need leadership off the ground more than we do on the ground. I believe we have the tools but do we have the brains to effectively utilise them

Pros: Tough
- The usual suspects. Juddy, Murph, GIBBS (in the 3rd) Kreuz. Juddy has to do too flowering much, and I honestly think he's getting pissed off. FFS Juddy, it's one thing to let your on-field play do the talking, but pull these blokes in line and tell them to HTFU otherwise your shoulders are literally going to collapse from carrying this team.
- We only looked dangerous with Waite up forward. He MUST stay in the forward 50.
- Austin and Yarran showed promise, and certainly weren't disgraced. Armfield and Joseph at least show some balls out there.
- Bower may look like a spaz with the ball in hand, but he does his job. First Buddy stitched up, now Pav.

Cons: Where to begin
- Cloke, Wiggins, JR, Stevo, Thornton, Simpson. Collectively one of the worst games they're all played, and if the MC is fair dinkum they'll be donning an ant instead of a CFC next week (not flowering likely though). Ratts, the time for being the players' mate is over, show us how fair dinkum you are.
- Our tackling is truly pathetic. The number of times we tackled the body, only for their players to still have their hands free to dish off a handball, was staggering.
- I think we've got more than our share of FIGJAMs in the team, and they've done nothing to earn it.
- Fev clearly lowered his colours to Tarrant. Fev, we understand that you hate the guy and had a bit of a niggle, but that's no flowering excuse for what you dished up tonight.
- The delivery to Fev wasn't much better. I could swear Pagan was coaching us all over again.
- How many times were there 5-6 Dockers players surrounding the ball or one of our players? And how many times did we kick to these situations??
- Don't wait for someone else to do it, GET THE FLOWERING BALL!
- Handballing to blokes that are CLEARLY about to be tackled
- Allowing our opposition to once again own the corridor. WTF is Ratts' aversion to going down the middle??
- We're absolutely prime rib for Collingwood to knock us off next week, and if that doesn't force the MC to demand answers from some of our players then we're flowered as far as I'm concerned.
- Goodbye finals.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

No offence guys as I would love to have these two hard nuts in the side but every side has good players out and in fact I believe we are sharing better than most when it comes to injuries.

Con
I couldn't watch the game so I taped it.

Pro
I have already deleted the recording.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Pros:* murphy under extreme tag just is now elite,& of course judd can't do much more-neither gave up even when out numbered coz of lack of help from stevens,hadley,simpson

*liked armfield & joseph's dash & attack on the ball with willingness to carry-both will need to refine kicking skills
*hope they can be around striking distance of finals when walker,grigg,warnock & carrazzo r up with some games/fitness at pointy end of season

Cons:*as walls would say our last 6 just aren't up to it

*u can knock fevola all u like but his injury prior to season persists & we'd be 5-2 at least if he was fit-yes his body language was poor & infectious to team mates who had no idea who to kick it too while he had the ''sads''

The point for me is that these are the exact type of players - strong, robust, quick, aggressive, skilful, - that we need. They have the mindset that Russell, Stevens, Houlihan, Thornton lack.

And they're as big as Hill who cut us up all night with his run and pace.

We needed two of them out there tonight.

Hill plays above his weight for someone who is a rake and looks like an outside player.

I'll pay that. The problem is that I hold Jamo in very high regard - in an error ridden effort by the Blues his name has come up. Couple that with the fact that his direct opponent had 4 shots at goal and was unlucky to only kick one goal.

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Selling Baseball Cards

Pros: ---------------------

Cons:

Russell - enough. Go home. Sub standard footballer who've we've treated with kid gloves for 4 years. And to think I praised him 3 weeks ago (can he finally get dropped for the first time ever ?????????????????????)

Wiggo. Luv your spirit, but you'd never even get a game with Geelong.

Stevens. Soft soft soft.

Until we get a CHF, we are 10-12th standard at best.

Thought I wouldn't have to post something like this for at least 6 years, but sheesh..........WE WERE CR#P

Some people will call for return of Fish

Please tell me you mean Geelong little league...

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

i am Surprised no one mentioned Hampson as a con....This Guy is a joke.... he should never play AFL football again.....


the amount of turnovers and crazy things he did tonight puts an entire team to shame.....


an Athlete with no footy Brains.....Terrible Selection yet again to bring in him at the expense of Santa....


Holihan's silky skills would have gotten us few goals tonight with the ground was very greasy and slippery... the ball was too hot to handle....... Yarran was soft as and betts was no where to be seen....

Pros:

- Judd sensational, Murphy too. Feel sorry for Judd that he has to do so much whilst the others scratch their heads.
- Yarran looked decent enough
- Well beat Collingwood next week, we always do in these situations

Cons

- First off, selling the home ground advantage Are we like the kangas and dogs where we need this money so desperately? Are we locked in for next year or is it an option? Let the option expire and play home games AT HOME!
- Fevola, disgraceful, injured or not. And Im one of his biggest fans
- Hampson. Some of his disposal was just shocking, dropping marks, kicking wayward. Did some nice things at the end but overall very disappointing, Im not a big fan of his and dont see him at the club for very long
- Stevens, what has happened to him this season? Send him to the Bullants
- Wiggins and Cloke again exposed as downhill skiers. Wont be part of our premiership team, why play them?
- Thornton coughing it up so much, another player who is questionable
- Disposal and decision making was just shocking
- After all this hype and talking up of our list we find ourselves at 3-4 with losses to Essendon* and freo
- Well beat Collingwood but then after that who knows? Signs arent looking good so far. We must win next week and need to start winning a series of games in a row.

Ive only read the first 3 pages but from what ive read, the biggest CON are most of the posters in here!!!

Ive lost count of the number of posters who have said 'we arent a top 4 team'. We havent flower played finals since 2001 yet for some reason we should be a top 4 team???

Lets concentrate on being a top 8 team and the top 4 component will follow!!!

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Walk on, Walk on,
With hope, in your heart,
And you'll never walk alone,
YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE!!!

08/02/1981 - GATE 7...Our brothers will never be forgotten!!!

Without doubt, your best post ever.

Nicely put.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.