Need to get Wiggins out of that side and throw in Simpson and you're pretty close to the mark I'd say...

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Just having another look at this list it's clear to me we're still a bit short on class even looking a year or two ahead. Need a lot of these young players to take big steps (not to C grade but to B+ grade at least) to get our list up to competing with the top teams.

To echo Frank Dardew - (leaving aside veterans in Scotto Stevo and Houla) players like Carazzo, Russell, Hadley, Ando, Browne, Wiggins, Army, Simmo, Thornton as a group are too vanilla at this stage. They all have something, but are they "the package"?

Geelong can carry a couple of ordinary players, but the rest of them are A or B grade. Hawthorn have players that are highly competent at most things but exceptional at a few things, whether its kicking or hardness or pace.

disagree. Geelong is a great team - If you put a fair few of those players into another team they wouldnt be nearly as intimidating (individually).

For mine, their 'stars' would be - selwood, ablett, bartel, s.johnson, scarlett and perhaps chapman+harley. The other players are good, but I think they are a step below these guys.

Atm, we our 'stars' would be - judd and fev. Waite has the potential to get there, though he needs to consistently be made to take responsibility (ie games against richo, reidwoldt) as opposed to playing loose man all the time. From what they have shown. gibbs, murphy, kreuzer should all hit this level with a bit more experience. Betts could probably get there as well if he is able to maintain his early season form.

Then there is yaran+hampson - havent seen enough of them yet but both have the potential to get to this level if they can develop well I would think. Yarran based on highlights tapes, and hampson on physical attributes/development (3 yrs away I think).

So on 'star' power, I think we have enough to compete with the best of them (given a bit more experience to the youngsters). My only concern would be down back - jamison+bower look good atm but I think they have a long way to go before they become elite defenders.

I have wiggins in for team structure - wiggins+walker would be leading hard up the wings to drive the ball inside 50. Particularly with wiggins strong marking. Like simpson as a player but he is a fair way behind wiggins in that respect (marking).

If simpson were in the team, I'd probably drop one of armfield, robinson, or stevens ahead of wiggins (on team balance). Though defensively the weakest, stevens isnt likely to be dropped (VC/kicking skills). Imho, simpson doesnt have as much scope to develop as a player going forward whereas robinson/armfield are likely to do so (hence I have them ahead of simpson)

Just concerned with your logic in having Wiggins and Walker as lead up forwards. I would not want weither of them kicking inside 50. This is where you need your best kicks who can hit targets despite the defensive flooding. Wiggins is a great lead up mark but that's where the positives stop. Way too slow with his decision making, his kicks lack penetration, poor at kicking to advantage and we all know about his ability to convert set shots at goal. I just hope Austin gets a chance to play up forward.

I would rather Walker play in the guts to either break the lines or get the ball out to our quality ball carriers. There is noone at Carlton is more ferocious at contests. Would have been handy for us last week.

Conundrum

Glad to see Aussie, Yarran and Hammo get a go this week.

Army has been impressive so far.

I'd like to see Browne and Anderson get a crack soon.

The more games we get into the likes of Army, Browne, Yarran, Robbo, Garlett, Aussie, Hammo and AJ the better this club will be better for it.

The bombers are a prime example of this. They have been forced to play some young guys through injury and are standing up to it and growing in confidence. They are most definitely benefiting from this situation and on top of that are playing a positive style of footy very much like Geelong NOT kick it along the boundary lines cause our coach wont back us in (cheap shot at Ratts).

The futures lies within the players mentioned above and players like Houla, Carrots, Bentley, Wiggins and Cloke are not going to take this club further. Then WHY PLAY THEM when we have so much more to gain from not

After 8 rounds I believe we are starting to get a clear indication of the future and potentially it looks very good.

We need speed and consistent hard at it players.

IMO by the end of the year our best 22 will look like this:


B: Browne Jamison Walker
HB: Scotland Bower Grigg
C: Simpson Gibbs Robinson
HF: Yarran Austin Joseph
F: Betts Waite Kruezer
Foll: Warnock Judd Murphy
Int: Hampson Garlett Armfield Carrazzo

Plus other possibles: Russell, Anderson, Jacobs, Bannister, Thornton, Hadley

Nearly GAWN: Fisher, Bentick, Setanta, Wiggins, Edwards, Hartlett, Stevens, Bentley, Houlihan

Fevola (think we are better without him, today proved it for me)

Really? I thought today showed what Fev can do for this team when he's well marked, which is every second week with about 6 blokes hanging off him.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Fully undertsand what you're saying but wiggins will never be conistent enough IMO. Plus he is too slow.

I reckon we still nee more pace in our team. Walker brings that and so much more and that is why when players like Garlett and Yarran develop they will add the pace we need.

_________________
"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Waite must play forward.

Bower, Austin, Jamo and Thornton to play the KPD roles.

We looked much better with this structure today.

can switch austin and waite in the fwrd line!! 2 versatile players!! austin looked promising up fwrd and brilliant down back. waite speaks for himself

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All at Carlton are Equal, Except some are More Equal than others

That's still too tall in defence IMO.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Yep agree. We need 3 quick hard at it types to support Bower,Austin and Jamo. I'm sold on Joseph, Armfield maybe and then you have Grigg and Walks to pick from...oh in case you're wondering Thornton to the bench and beyond...

_________________
"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Interesting to note that Ratts was quoted in the Age today that we were carrying players and Sundays game was a team effort with no passengers.

The journo made reference to the point suggesting the ommission of Cloke and Wiggins and Waite going forward revitalised the forwardline.

I can't see Cloke or Wiggins in our first 22.

They are both average players.

If Wiggler was able to display the form he showed in rounds 1 and 2 with consistency then sure he'd be putting his hand up. Unfortunately he isn't consistent.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

One of our biggest issues at the moment. We are VERY slow out of defence.

We need to play two tall defenders out of the above.

Plus One mid sized mobile type (ala Walker) and then three quick attacking players that use the ball well and can penetrate with their kicking.

absolutely agree we need to balance our backline with more pace... who?

OK there's Army and Joseph who are promising, but not quite there yet.

Grigg I think has the attacking game, and has very good pace for his size.

Walker can and probably will do it as he likes to tuck the ball under the arm at times but may be used forward

Simpson can run - but he zig zags more these days - not super quick or a long kick

Lachie Hill unfortunately did a hammy last week - he might jump up and surprise next season. Similar Build to Walker, really fast, and a booming left foot kick.

Not enough options... Stephen Hill would have been good. Lovett was on the market last year...damn he's a star. These players will be in high demand as fast movement is the only way to get clean movement these days.

I think the setup with Waitey, Krooze and Hammo rotating forward worked well and made us a lot less predictable and even dangerous when hammo and krooze taking clean strong grabs.

At times we looked a little top heavy and teams who 'slingshot' from defense would kill us but the balance is getting better and more to work with.

Yesterday proved that there is no room for a one dimensional Cloke in this side.

Cloke, Fisher, Wiggins are on borrowed time. I like Fish (shame if he doesn't make 100 games) and Wiggler but not the present or the future....

I don't think we are far off its just the structures that worry me. The problem with a game like yesterday doesn't expose our deficiences.

Sides like Geelong, Hawthorn, St Kilda are playing no more than TWO tall defenders.

I would like to see:

B: Browne Jamison Walker
HB: Robinson Bower Grigg

Other options in Anderson, Johnson, Russell as runners.

Waite, Gibbs, Scotland as options as loose man in defence plus Hammer dropping back and Kruezer rucking in fwd line or visa versa.

I believe for his development (and fitness) Yarran needs to be groomed as a HBF ala McLeod where his run and delivery would be sensational.

Guys like Joseph, Armfield to be added to midfield rotation

Add to that the Bulldogs.