Lose by less than a kick to a team of scrubbers after dropping Scotland, play Bentley instead of Hadley and lose by less than a kick to last year's premiers, drop Houlihan and..................?
Lucky it's Freo in Queensland, but we aren't good enough to drop class footballers.

Just stirring about SOS.

Keep things in perspective? Houla had 3 kicked on him, 2 in the last, not 4-5...and it was am attacking game.

The real point is that it was a shoot out on that night and Houla had a defensive and offensive role to play from HB and did well in my books, As for the umpiring decisions...mmmmm. It was not the worse defensive game ever. If you say that, people will believe it, so I picked you up on that.

I think we have a very good list. Players like Houla are very good footballers. I'd rather he be described as such with a couple of flaws he needs to iron out...even if it is in the twos....not exaggerating the level of his input over 100 minutes.

Blokes like Cloke and Wiggler have also done some good things on the field when playing at full tilt, but also have some deficiencies to work on too. One has lost his kicking boot and the other really needs to find touch, present and hold marks, as he is selected to do. Same with Setanta.

What I find strange is the pecking order. Houla has done pretty well for us in 2009, and wasn't that bad last week either, and Setanta who has been given limited game time, and been moved around the ground in all sorts of positions did OK in the last 2 weeks too, wheras Cloke is sadly out of form, and Wigglers game in the last 3 weeks has not been as good as Houla.

We are discussing who should and shouldn't be dropped based on form and performance in the last game. You target Houla. Why not compare Houla's efforts thus far with Wiggler and Cloke, and try and find out why they were selected ahead of him and whether it is justifiable from a position of a public forum commentator, not privy to the inner sanctums workings?

Do we drop players who are out of form or do we drop players who make some errors but in general did well on the day? Or, do we drop them all and replace them with kids with upside who can do their developing in the firsts?

Form should be the primary guide imo and the MC should be questioned primarily on their commitment to that mantra.

Who will be better value for the team? That's the point, not Houla bashing.

We are looking at the teams and attempting to justify or criticise the selections. We need to look at the whole, not single out players. Lets get that in perspective.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Sorry Keogh....I can't wear that.

You don't get dropped for two fumbles in the first half, you look at a players' whole game.

So in comparison, Wiggler played more minutes than Houla, why does he still remain? If you're going to suggest he there becuase of his first 2 games this year, I'd suggest have a look at the stats and time each player spent on the park. Houla is a much smarter footballer.

There's other players' who have been retained in the 22 you should look at too.

In those two instances you mention in the post match discussion I described Houla as being cute and trying to be too smart and it didn't work for him...that wasn't anything to do with courage or class...just trying to fool his opponent rather than concentrating on the ball....Houla has shown courage this year like never before do cudos to him.

Not crying about Houla being dropped to the Ants. I'm more concerned about the decision to retain a few there who played worse than Houla.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Depends on why Houla was dropped.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Probably should wait to see if Houlihands even lines up for the Bullants before jumping to conclusions, either side of the fence.

Good to see Yarran in. Good to have Hadley back in the guts. Guttered that Carrazzo is out. There was discussion on TC about how many assists he actually had. He was credited with 1 officially. I watched the last half again last night and in the last quarter Carrazzo was in heavy traffic and twice he won the ball with skill out to Betts who assisted Fevola and Simpson with goals.

Hope Austin gets a run of at leat 5 games to find his feet.

Let's make this back-to-back victories over the Dockers.

I agree we can't let them push us to the boundaries.
Their mids are young but they do have flair, we need to lock them up in the middle and Hammer needs to give us a contest against Sandy the Giant

Sorry guys................ But i just cannot understand these selections. Actually, i think they're a @#$%&! joke!

Firstly, Russell must give out 'snip' cause he is clearly a loved boy down at Carlton. Worst on ground last week along side of Cloke........... yet both are still in the team.

This aint backyard footy Ratten,.......it's a professional sporting team - you've gotta be willing to 'drop your mates' if they don't perfom.


YARREN - Sure, best of luck to the kid,......hope he's something special. But in all honesty, what has he done to warrant his selection in this team?
Answer = Nothing. He has done nothing. He was OK 2 weeks ago....... Just ok.
Plus, it boggles my mind how you can pick a new player who didn't even play the week before!!!!!


HOULIHAN -
Err......... How? Why? WTF?
He's been good this year. Sure, he had an Off game last week, but no way was he worse that Cloke and Russell - no way!
How do you justify dropping him? Surely he's injured.............. surely!
(Keogh........... if you can justify Houlihan being dropped for 2 fumbled incidents, then how do you explain Russell keeping his spot?)

Just on being injured, Simpson is clearly underdone and carrying something. If he can't even train, then why the @#$%&! risk him? Good god!

The only selection i like is Hampson in................. but to drop Setanta (who did have a bad game) is wrong. It's just wrong. No wonder the kid is so frustrated.


Good to see some consistancy in the MC. They back up last weeks joke selection in Bently with another doozie in dropping Houlihan/Setanta for a kid who didn't even play last weekend! haha. My God!


(P.S. Sorry if my post upset anybody - that's not my intention. But these selections just cannot be warranted IMHO)

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

I've been baffled a few times this year with selections but have come to the conclusion that our football department is basically scanning the cattle, experimenting (without getting dangerous) against different sides depending on skills match-ups, or seeing whether an opportunity given to a player in the seniors, (even when they might not necessarily deserve it), allows them to take their game to the next level.

The club is thinking about a solid finals outfit that competes for a number of years, and they are fine tuning at present.

Still, I'm flower pissed off Santy isn't in.

Nah it pisses me off.

The MC are becoming more like the Cricket Australia selectors.

Jordan Russell is footballs equivilent of Andrew Symonds.
Doesn't do anything, but gets rewarded for a spot for being a 'well liked bloke'.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Thrilled with these decisions. They couldn't have got it more right.

Anyone defending Houlihan needs to get a reality check. The guy has been a soft, slow coaster for years, who just gets by on a bit of top end talent. But now the list is full of depth and kids with talent pushing up (who need games into them), it is time to make these sorts of changes. Players shouldn't feel as though they have a birth right to be in the seniors week in week out. Anyone see Open Mike with Harley last night? Harley talked about a turning point in the recent Geelong history when players were being dropped, how it sent a message nobody is guaranteed a spot as the team starts to seriously improve and move forwards. Bottom line is Houlihan had the fumbles early last week and I reckon (and looks like the MC agree) it was because he sheeted himself with the tough likes of Hodge and Sewell nearby.

Bentley is a no brainer. His game last week would be up there with the worst debuts from an experienced player.

Setanta maybe a bit unlucky given he was OK against the Dogs, but I reckon Cloke (rightly or wrongly) has been given the same sort of we'll-persist-with-him pass that Russell has been given, and therefore it was always going to be Santy who got dropped (ahead of Cloke). Mind you, if Cloke doesn't find some form soon, surely the MC must lose patience with him and drop him, and like most Blues fans I too believe he is not the long term future. Once Warnock and Hampson get going, Cloke will be out the back door. Maybe they can leave him in Gold Coast this weekend.

Austin is a bit of a no brainer too. How many good games and promise can a lad show before he gets another go at senior level. KPP who did so well both back and forward last week, just has to get his chance. And it makes even more sense when you consider our backline is still conceding goals most weeks and the forwardline is lacking another option - Aussie gives us options in both regards. At the end of the day he looms as one our best young KPP prospects, so he had to come into the side at some point or another. Some people might not like this, but the reality is he has more natural nous and skill than Setanta.

The Yarran one is interesting. Hasn't played consecutive gun games at VFL level, but there's also a need to make sure you don't delay his debut too long (I'm thinking about the lad's mindset here - having seen the rookie pick Garlett get his go earlier, and seen so many of his rival top ten draftees do well at other clubs, at some point you need to give him his taste).

Also Hammer is a no brainer. Has dominated hit outs the past few weeks, GC is his home turf, and the still very young Kruezer has worked tirelessly in ruck and needs some proper assistance in ruck (not a Cloke or Santy type).

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It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it

Deep down, you love Jordan Russell.

All of you, all of you.

When I first saw the "ins" I thought gee thats a tall team. Another poster mentioned it as well. Im a little worried we might be too top heavy.

Whilst YARRANS selection maybe puzzling lets give the kid a chance. Please remember its his first game of senior AFL footy, so take it easy on him!

Also, don't expect him to burn it up as a result. He is bound to make mistakes and he may not get a touch. At least the MC are giving him a taste...

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Cripps is the man

I doubt that Ratten and the MC keep selecting certain players because they think they're nice.
Without being privy to tasks that individual players are given on game day then it's pure guesswork to suggest that they aren't earning their place in the team. If you dropped every player who had a poor game or who was beaten by their direct opponent some weeks you'd be making 15 changes.

Some of the stuff written about certain players on these forums makes me embarrassed to be a TCer.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Very suprised Houla dropped would like to hear from the MC as to why. Cloke has had a couple of bad weeks and probably deserves a run in the two's to find some form. I suspect Carlos will not be at the club next year, no whispers but get the sense that the MC feel he has limited development left, and wish to that the oppotunity to give the younger players more game time.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Give a first year draftee with an interrupted pre season and not the fittest bloke getting round a week off to freshen up? Please explain that to me because I just don't get it.

If this game was in Melbourne Hammer wouldn't get a gig. We need to show him off on the Gold Coast so that we can trade the 'local ruckman' for a high draft pick in the upcoming compromised draft. He probably needs to play 8 games a year for the next two years. Enough so that he earns a bit of a reputation and GC17 can see an upside but not too much in case he is crap.

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Ecclesiastes 1:4, "One generation passes away, and another generation comes: but The Blues abide forever."

..absolute bollocks.. ..take a serious look at our ruck stocks.. ..a good, long hard look.. ..we've got Knockers, who -should- be our 1st ruck, but even with the injury he's biggest selling point if 5 cms in height.. ..we've got Krooze, a 2nd yr prodigy that may be needed forward.. ..then we have Sauce, a rookie ruck of the old-school variety.. ..i don't think we're in the position to consider trading Hammer..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Fantastic to see Hammer, Aussie and Yarran as INS!!! The more games they play this season the better!!! YARRAN!!

I'll preface what I'm about to say by stating that I have never bagged Houla on these forums.... but I thought he was extremely disappointing last week... actually let me re-phrase, I thought he was crap! I'm glad the MC had the balls to drop him this week!

My only criticism with the changes was Setanta getting dropped ahead of Cloke.... hard to figure that one out!

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When Dick became President, it was as if everyone at Carlton came out of the hailstorm and into the sunshine - Stephen Kernahan

YARRAN!!





.

But that's the whole problem................ Cartain players in this side are guaranteed their spot. Week In-Week Out.

Russell, despite the fact he is loved by many and hated by some, is clearly a favourite of Ratts. He had more fumbles that Houlihan last week, yet he's safe as houses.

Cloke too has had a few bad games in a row, yet we drop Setanta after just one bad game.

Harley is right - No Player should be guaranteed. But at Carlton..... certain players are!

Ryan Houlihan has been a soft bitch for many a years now, but has lifted a notch this year IMHO. And in any case, he has had More Kicks / More Handballs / More Tackles / More Goals than the likes of Jordan Russell.
Russell went to ground almost 4 or 5 times last week............... That’s Soft! And Weak!

And before all you JR loves jump in and cry about me being a 'hater'....... the fact is, i'm not. There is no single player at any team that i hate (Matty Llyod being the exception).
But i'm being honest in saying that Jordan Russell and Cameron Cloke should rub their balls for luck and thank the heavans above that they've remained in this team when they clearly shouldn't be there.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle