Thank goodness, it was just a bad dream.....

We showed a lot of heart today.

But I think people are very frustrated with the narrow loss exactly because it was against the premiers, and it brings premierships to the forefront of our thinking - how far are we? What's the difference in the sides? Are we as good? Is it the coach's fault? Did the MC let us down?

It's natural to get worked up by such a close loss.

And I do think that we need to make some tough decisions sooner rather than later - we do have a few players who were filling gaps while we pulled together a young team.
We desperately need Hampson to cement a spot, and/or Warnock to get healthy.
Cloke will never be in our premiership team, as much heart as he shows.
One of Austin, Anderson or Browne must step up and be a regular player by mid season.
Players like Bannister and Bentick are not adding depth - they are VFL and should be dropped from the list to take a punt on someone else.
Let's make some tough decisions on Edwards and Hartlett too - we are crying out for another target and they have been given a fair go.

Hawthorn got where they are partly by making the hard decisions. In the past we haven't had the luxury, but now we owe it to Judd, Kreuz, Smurf, Gibbs, Eddie and Fev: people who actually can play, to build a winning team around them. Show faith in the young talent, sure, but get rid of the dead wood. Pride for the jumper is great and is expected, but effort without skills to back it up is pointless for premierships.

DON'T blame everything on Bentley
DO play Yarran - give him a go!
And teach the guys the little things - like standing & maintaining the mark, not falling into people's backs, all the little niggly tough things that the Hawthorn boys do.

Fantastic effort, we are closer than ever.
The comment about the difference b/w top 8 and top 2 is spot-on: we need to make some changes, but not until the end of the season.

Until then just keep teaching the boys to be professionals, and get the structures functioning.
We can't win a premiership just from bombs out of the centre square to Fev.

Fev missed one he should have kicked....and from what I saw, kicked at least 2 that he had no right to kick. Swings and roundabouts.

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"I had to eat"

Great post. Also surprised by the overly critical assessments here. Super high intensity match - we usually fold in this type of game, but we made a very courageous and audacious comeback.

I was very proud today, and more impressed than I was last week. Matched it with a more talented and experienced side that are reigning premiers. Don't worry, the Hawks were tremendous today. We could be 6-0 with a little more experience in the box and on the ground.

I told you we would win the replay Grro

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

I only saw the last 15 minutes on the tube. Hopefully will get to watch the reply on the fabulous one hd later this week but i trust you talking carlters from what you have said so

I am more pleased after this week than last week because i personally rate the Dawks highly

What I want to see the MC do is

1 Play Hampson in the ruck. Kreuzer needs to have license to play anywhere inside the forward line. He has the tank to do it and we desperately need another marking presence in the forward line after Fev.
Its time for the MC to say to Hammer we are giving you 8 weeks and see how you go.
I like Cloke . He has a crack but he isnt up to it.

2 W e have a couple of guys who arnt quite up to it and get exposed in really high quality games. They need to be replaced. Eventually we will be the winners if the MC bite the bullet and just do it because we will be better in the long run.
Houlihan
Cloke
Russell
Stevens
Now before I get shotdown in flames because Stevo was good today I still reckon there are issues with the 29 yearold.

In
Hammer
Anderson I really like him .He is ready
Yarran You just know this guy will add something
Grigg
Austin reckon he will make it as a CHB

At least now we have guys that can replace blokes

3 Coaching

It seems Thornton had a bad one. Why wasnt Jamo or Carlos put on Roughhead. Ridicoulous

Bentley was a punt that went horribly wrong. Can handle that though. Sometimes the MC need to take a risk and see if it works. Hadley would have been better though

4 Playing Carrots as a forward tagger is just plain flower stupid. In my view the worse decision ever made. I dont care if he keeps an opponent quiet. The guy is a ball magnet. He would release Judd and Gibbs to do more damage. No brainer to me.

Ratten is still lacking experience but Danny boy you are spot on. We have the cattle Its just the sheepdog has to put the cattle in the right spots.

Anyway enough from me. Great game, sad to miss it but they know we are coming.

The fact of the matter is that we had every reason to win today and we couldn't.

Hawthorn have been struggling and are nowhere near their best yet.
If Pratts death couldn't get us up nothing will.
We were behind all day and only got a run at the end when Hawthorn dropped off.
Our better players played well.

We are still a long way off.

its falling fast but can someone wake me when the sky hits the ground

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Bottom 4?

So we played off in a "CLASSIC" game, and lost, but it wasn't good enough and we should hold no hope for improvement because if we couldn't use Pratts death as motivation then nothing will get us over the line ???

Can you say overreaction ???

Why is it that 95% of the football world will see this game as a CLASSIC for the season, but Carlton supporters will see it as a FAILURE ???

Pull your finger out people !!!!!!!!!!!

I'm still at a loss as to why Bentley was picked up by us in the first place

Relax bashing your head. Not everyone is curling up in a ball and crying.

Not for me.... With 30 seconds on the clock we all but had it won. Fev 25 metres out ball in hand slight angle 5 points down after clawing our way back into it for the 3rd time of the day. We deserved to win, should have won, and it was heart breaking in the end. I was angry at the scum loss. This loss really hurt.

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Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

My apologies, I should be jumping up and down about a loss. What are we, Richmond?

Plus where did I say Failure?

The fact of the matter is that what I want is a premiership. Unlike some people near enough isn't good enough for me and to achieve this we need to be realistic about where we are at. Yes, our effort was fantastic but we have issues we need to address.

Agree with all the positives about the game........but if we focus on them too much, we'll become a StK or Fre....so YES, we are improving and yes the signs are bright for the future. Bottom line is we still lost a close one.....again. Remember that Hawk supporters would have probably been contented with an honorable loss in last year's GF, but THEY SEIZED THEIR OPPORTUNITY.

In our losses to Ess and Haw, we flowered up on a significant level. I have already discussed my thoughts on the Ess game.
With regard to today's game:

Why Bentley? Hindsight stuff is bulldust. Most TC'ers were shocked with his selection. Has shown nothing. Hadley or Browne for mine.
Why does Kruezer not spend more time at CHF? Contests created and Carazzo/Betts to pick up crumbs.
Hampson for Cloke would have allowed the situation above to be realised
Thornton tried hard.....Jammo should have been the shutdown tag on Jarryd Roughead
Carazzo move was good....but for God's sakes Ratts, spice it up a little. Put Carrots in the middle for a few minutes each qtr to help Judd get the ball out of the middle. JR or Wiggo could have gone onto Hodge in the mean time
I still cannot work out why we kick to contests from the kick in. We gift wrapped them 2 goals today
Please do not bring Fisher in. His career at Carlton is just about finished. Not good enough
Fev was brilliant period.


Anyway, they're just my opinions. I believe strongly in them but do not expect others to do so. I know I should be happy with the way we played, but I am not. Just like a win is a win is a win....well, a loss is a loss is a loss. we are 3-3 and back amongst it, and freo will be have their tails up after two wins. Like I said YOU NEED TO SEIZE THE OPPORTUNITY

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Seriously, what 99prelim wants and what cj69 wants ain't gonna impact whether we win a premiership or not and what's posted here isn't going to make us St Kilda or Richmond. Stupid stupid thinking.

Maybe with Jamisons injury it would be tough to contain a strong fwd so they opted for a fast leading one. There have been stries going around about he only being able to spoil with one arm.

We looked nervous early and i reckon we will improve in this area and that should stop the fumbles in close.

I am happy with the way the blues are going. Reckon Ratts is on the right track. Good things lay ahead.


Go Blues!

Where did you say failure ??? Indicating that we couldn't even beat an underperforming team even after the death of a loved Carlton member = implying the game/effort was a failure in my, and probably most peoples books


You wan't a premiership and DEMAND it right away ??? Anything less isn;t good enough (eg a failure). God what number were you wearing out there tonight ??? How much blood, sweat and tears have you put in at training and on game day to be able to DEMAND a premiership, and anything less isn;t good enough ???

You say that we need to be "realistic about where we are at". Where we are at is coming from 11th spot with a young, developing team and a young, inexperienced coaching panel. Where we are at is a Captain stating at the start of the season is Finals as the goal (not the premiership you want). Where we are at is a team growing together, learning how to play as a team and developing as players individually.

It is the marketing department (slogan that Stick's kinda laughs at), Media and Supporters that have Carlton as a Top 4 team. It it Carlton who are trying things out in the senior team (Cloke as a CHF, Setanta in the Ruck/up forward) and the Ants (Harlett in the backline, Hampson up forward or up back) so address the weaknesses in the team.

How long do you think it took the Cats and Hawks to learn the game plan their young coaches (at the time) implemented ??? How many years of losses before the gameplans became effective ???

To be as negative as a large proportion of the TC posters have been after NARROWLY loosing a CLASSIC game aainst the REIGNING PREMIERS is REDICULOUS and, as you would put it, very "Richmond" like ................ It sounds like we need to start rebuilding again, sacking the coach and recruitment team because out gameplan sucks, we have no KPP and we are doing NOTHING to address these problems ...........

Really, really, really disappointed by the loss.

But not shattered.

The guys played 3 quarters of uncompromising footy. In the last, the Hawks came out and gave it everything to shake us, and they got out to a 4 goal lead.

We didn't lie down.

We could have stemmed the loss, and stopped a 6-goal defeat. Instead, they rallied, and found skills that had abandoned them, (Even some of the "sinful six"), and clawed their way back into the match.

We had them on toast in almost every department through the whole match, except the scoreboard. Yes, that's the one place it counts, but F%^& me, if you're not happy with the effort against the Premiers, the team which absolutely walloped us last year, then you'll never be happy.

In short, our turnovers gave the match to them. They scored 6 goals or so as a direct result from turnovers.

There are some players who will be stung badly by today's performance. And to be honest, it's not just "The usual suspects". There are some much bigger names who had pretty a ordinary match.

Gutted, but not shattered.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

You're right verbs, it is stupid stupid thinking. I forgot to mention Richmond. (Would your average Rich supporter have thought in October 82 that they would have gone 27 years without playing on the last sat in sept). carlton (and rich once) were successful because they were ruthless and their supporters didn't believe in honorable losses. set the bar low and that's what you'll get. The MC needs a kick in the pants for this and the ess game. If you can't see that, you are going to have a much less stressful year watching the game with your Bono inspired raybans than a few of us. I'll keep setting the bar higher internally (both the off field and on field) and will obviously endure more anxious moments than you. Opportunities need to be seized, and if they're not we look at why. A few of us here are just giving our opinions as to "the why".

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!