Two players were asked to do tough jobs today, one was Paul Bower on Buddy and the other was Carrazzo on Luke Hodge

Both players i though did outstanding jobs on both dangerous players, definite pro's

Pros

We got a real indication of the standard of our players and our team

Cons

We lost

Pros:
- Given that our last 2 games against Hawthorn were 100 points and 70 points thrashing, this game is a big improvement.
- Our star players played great
- Kruezer was brilliant in the ruck, I think he ruck the entire 4th quarter. His tackling and attacks at the ball were better than some of our smaller players (see below)
- Bower good job, still needs to work on his 2nd efforts though.


Cons:
- Cloke, he was pretty much useless, didn't help in the ruck, lost so many contest in marking against a smaller opponent. He was easily the worst on ground today.
- Bentley, not the best game to try out new players Ratts!
- Hadley and/or Robinson would have been really handy today
- too many goals were kicked against us from really really dumb, stupid mistakes.
- Houlihan, Wiggins, Russell, Simpson, when it's start to get tough, these players goes too soft.
- bad miss by Fevola, probably the easiest shot he had all day. but 8 goals is still a brilliant effort, bad luck mate.
- Thornton is being over rated by Ratts, out of all of our tall defenders, he would have to be the worst at 1 on 1 contest, he is no doubt a 3rd man defender, helping out other team mates.

You mean when the Hawks smashed us out of the middle and built a matching winning lead while we had half our starting midfield cooling their heels on the bench in an ultimately vain attempt to rotate over a team we'd trailed for 2 and a half quarters already?

I know that, but for a few centimetres of wood, it would have been genious. But for me it's a little bit like taking the running shot from the boundry instead of squaring it to a teammate who is free in front of goal. If you don't kick the goal you should be held accountable.

We had the momentum going in at three quarter time, and came out and gave them a free kick at the clearances for 15 minutes. Why didn't we come out with our A-team and try and win the game from the first bounce? Too cute by half for mine.

pros---
fev --was great today, yeah he missed a shot but without him we would have lost by 5-6 goals
joesph-- i really like this player, goes in hard , runs hard
judd
muprhy
kruezner
bower
waite
i thought they were the standouts today

cons--- tackles --just dont stick at crucial times
cloke, bentley, setanta just not up to it
waite kicking out never again
hawthorn players waltzing thru the midfield from there kick outs
players slipping over

overall i was was upset about todays result initially then thought they were the premiers last year and if fev kicked that goal we would have won , hear that we would have won, more experience into those young guys and next year we will smash hawthorn hopefully

pros:

paul bower has now put together a solid few weeks of footy...he might have made it....one to you hughesy/cazzesman !

usual suspects were good (which makes the loss even more disappointing!)

we are still coming...how far we go will ultimately be determined by how quickly and successfully the cons below are addressed

now for the cons: (and let's not pull any punches!)

Brett Ratten (& MC) - selection continues to be totally baffling ! Greg Bentley ???!!!??? I decided to give them a chance and was intrigued to see if the MC had a designated role for him...but he simply just seemed to fill space in the midfield to allow our regulars a breather....and to think we had R Hadley (who surely must have said something behind closed doors) and grigg twiddling their thumbs with the ants !

Brett Ratten (& MC) - seem to have blind faith with the team they choose and seem to be frozen in the box unable to respond on match day ....surely it was worth a try at some stage to switch our best defender on to their most damaging forward...it was that obvious that my two year old daughter was banging her head against the television ! they seem paralysed on match day...no different to the sydney game when the swans got on top !

Brett Ratten (& MC) - had all summer to devise some offensive structures which were to take us forward in 09. it still seems like plan A is kick it to fev on the lead, plan A1 is kick it on top of fev's head if he is surrounded by 4 defenders and plan B is simply pray and hope ! Not good enough ! now before you people cry personnel (and there is some merit to that argument), have a look at Geelong who don't have any stars but more than make do with lonergan, gamble, hawkins, mooney etc !

Brett Ratten (& MC) - our kick outs ....see above...we knew what was coming today...that ugly 15 man zone...the only surprise was that despite having 15 specialist coaches on the payroll, it didn't seem like we had come up with any plan to counter it, apart from chipping it to the boundary line and then kick and hope !

now I loved Rats as much as anyone here as a player ...and there is no doubt the players are playing for him....but having blue blood pumping through your veins isn't enough to qualify you
as a Carlton premiership coach (otherwise you and I would all be sending in our resumes!)....Barrass, Walls and Parko all were tactical geniuses who lead the way....not sure Rats is much more than an avid supporter getting the chance to sit in the coaches box....

I think we have a good list. there's plenty of doubt in my mind as to whether it's good enough to win a flag. There are still serious holes, if you can't see them, you might want to watch today's (fantastic) game again.

Clutching at straws here, this one is still hurting.

PROS
-We have improved by far more than I expected.
-Every Carlton game feels like a home game, thanks to all the Bluebaggers coming out to support their team. For the second week in a row the roar of the crowd when we scored dwarfed that of the "home" team.
-We never gave up.
-At least I didn't have to hear Hawthorn supporters referring to Roughead as J-RO this year.
-Credit to the cheersquad on a nice banner for Richard Pratt.

CONS
-Four is not a magic number, it is in fact the suckiest number ever.
-Seeing two of our high profile past players leaving when we were down 13, apparently to "beat the traffic". Because you go to the football to beat the traffic.
-Kicking for goal- once the again the more accurate team won the match.
-We left it to Fev again to kick the winning score singlehandedly.

Pros
Kreuzer is going to be a superstar - you heard it first
He is a ruckmen and an on baller at the same time.

Stevens played well.

Our young talent didn't look lost against the big body Hawks

Cons
We learnt that players like Cloke and Houlihan (who should be in their prime) don't cut it against the good sides. Until they are forced out of the side by players who deserve a senior game then we are not serious contenders for the premiership. I hope Hampson and Yarran come on sooner than later.

_________________
Delulio is a member of TISM

Why are people so NEGATOVE after such a GREAT GAME ??? Carlton have arguably been involved in 2 of the best games of the year, versus Essendon* and Hawthorn, yet us as Carlton supporters see both games as "failures" because we lost.

The Essendon* game WAS probably a failure as it was a game we should have won, but TO GET WITHIN 1 KICK OF LAST YEARS PREMIERS, and to HAVE A HUGE CHANCE TO WIN THE GAME wre 2 MASSIVE Pro's for me !!!!!!!!!!

So Ratten was "out coached" because we focused on kicking the ball to Fev too much this week ??? What about some criticism for Clarko then, as it seems his sole forward option was Roughhead even though he had another FREAK of a KPP in Franklin availanle to him ...........

Ratten was outcoached because his gameplan isn't up to the standards of the Hawks ??? Well FFS he has ONLY been coaching the side for what, 1 full season, 6 games and a teething period when it wasn't really his side anyway .......... GAMEPLANS TAKE TIME TO DEVELOP, ESP WITH A YOUNG SIDE !!!!!!!!!!! How many years did it take for the Hawks and Cats to develop their game plans ??? Sure there were some stuff ups today (ala not moving Jamison onto Roughead then then Thornton was getting killed) but common, crucifying him because his gameplan isn't up to last years premiers is BS !!!!!!!! OF CAUSE things need to be worked on, and it will get there, but you don't go from 16th to matching it with the reigning premiers in 2 years ...............

I don't think ANYONE will argue that Bentley's inclusion was the right decision, but move on ....... Look at the BIG piture people. WE ARE IMPROVING IN LEAP AND BOUNDS !!!!!!!! I dare wa Pratt would have loved the effort from the boys today, screamed at some of the crap umpiring decisions, pulled some hair out when Fev hit the post, but walked away from the game satisfied that the boys gave it their all and were AWESOME for most of the game. God if we play to that standard for the rest of the season then we will end up in the top 4 and could possibly have another crack at the Hawks in the finals !!!!!!!!

HEAR HEAR

_________________
If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Keep your left plum humpers, we have a chf. he wears number 8. before we destroy him in the ruck, bring in hammer and free up kreuzer for chf. betts yaran and twitch will have a picnc with the crumbs

_________________
If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Pros:

* Fevola
* Bower
* Murphy
* Judd
* Kreuzer


Cons:

* Wiggins (did not provide a marking option for us as in previous weeks. Only 2 marks for the game)
* Bentley (should never have been picked ahead of Browne or Anderson. Only had 9 disposals)
* Cloke (Gutless, pathetic, lazy, slow) 7 disposals & 2 marks for a 196cm & 100kg forward is pathetic. Has kicked only 5 goals in 6 games. Was outmarked in a one on one contest at least on 2 occasions today by an opposition shorter and lighter than him. One example was in the last quarter on the MCC members wing against Jordan Lewis.
* O'hAilpin (Has a go and tries, but looks lost on the field. Mucked up an opportunity for a Carlton goal at the Punt road end today, when he couldn't pick up the ball by himself.)
* Ratten's gameplan (In our 3 wins we played more direct through the middle. In our 3 loses we played wide along the wings and boundary. Only from the 20 minute mark in the last quarter today, did we consistently start playing through the corridor, and we nearly won).
What's our gameplan, through the middle or wings?

Why the constant calls for Krooze to play CHF? He's the next Dean Cox, a ruckman-sized midfielder. Priceless.

_________________
"I had to eat"

Shit yeah. At his age is looking like he'll be way better than Cox too.

The weird-ass comparisons to Fraser are looking more and more stupid by the game.

Pros: Paul Bower

Eddie Betts (got absoloutley crinched by hodge, but got back up and kept going. Provided plenty of goal assists and really got involved)

Aaron Joseph (I really think we've found something here)


Cons:

Brendan Fevola, yeah he kicked 8 goals and he worked his arse off. But the fact of the matter is he missed two easy goals and one that would have won us the game. If we really want to challenge teams he's going to start having to kick the pressure goals that he's getting paid 700k a year to do. He was unbelievably shattered after the game, but he's just going to have to put it out of his mind and focus on the job against Fremantle.

I know i should be positive that we got so 'close', but we lost, that's the fact, and if we want teams to know that 'we're coming' then were going to have to win games like these.

We're Carlton, and anything that doesn't involve getting the four points obviously isn't good enough. If we really want to challenge teams this year then that's the mindset we're going to have to have.

This is football and there's no prizes for second in this game.

Pros
#1 picks
Juddy
Fev
Bower

mentions to simmo for great heart, armfield, eddie trying all day, carrotz for sticking with hodge, jamo, waite (parts), others


Cons
Kick ins.......cringe every time

Fev choked

some of our skills.......2002-2007 all over again. gawd can we butcher handballs.....

PPL are saying oh well we lost to last years premiers by 4 points....FFS It's not like we lost to Geelong by a kick. WE LOST TO A HAWTHORN SIDE WE SHOULD/COULD HAVE BEATEN

Besides Fev....any forwards out there? edwards, hartlett...have u guys packed up shop? secured a job outside of football? interested in one last crack maybe?

Cloke...."important to our structure" but the problem is there is no pressure from the 2s!! noone who can replace him or crash packs like him. maybe hammer? need warnock and then kroooz can play upfront?

i was jumping out of my seat when fev took that mark..........why did he let us down?


woooooosa

3 wins in a row coming up!

_________________
All at Carlton are Equal, Except some are More Equal than others

well done.

i was about to go on a massive rant at some people on this forum, but after your post, i dont need too, and you have saved me from a possible banning.

so thank you.

fair dinkum you blokes, we finished 10th last year, not 8th, not 6th, not 4th, 10th.

if you cant see that we as a side have taken massive strides forward this year, then you need to get your eyes checked.

we lost by 4 points, some of you make it sound like 40.

and surprise surprise, a coach, like our side is learning on the job. they will make mistakes just as some of our players will.

_________________
Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

OK thanks for the clarification. We wouldn't want to broaden his development. I mean, he's only 19 years old with Dean Cox's body ready to take on all the big ruckmen week in week out as the number 1 follower

_________________
If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

another good reason not to play him at CHF

_________________
"I had to eat"