There were two very talented teams out there today, but only one of them has been taught to understand the structures, game plans, and disciplined running required to be the best. Alistair Clarkson has had longer, but Brett Ratten needs to produce a side that "understands".

PROS

1. We have the talent - we have a list capable of winning a flag, of that there is no doubt.

2. The holy trinity was on fire again. Kreuz is the best!

3. Judd and Stevo were good - but I still think Judd is so much more useful running the lines than being stuck in the rugby scrum.

4. Bower keeps lifting

5. Waite was fantastic

CONS

1. Brett Ratten - why did you pick Greg Bentley? We all questioned it and were proven right. We had 21 players today with better guys in the 2's. Match-up my arse. Too smart by half.

2. Brett Ratten - why has our team not taken a kick out past halfway in 2 rounds? Why did Jarrad Waite have no option then turn it over? Why do teams waltz through our kickout zone with impunity? Not good enough

3. Brett Ratten -why do our players look wide to the wings, forcing our shots at goal to be from the line? Why do we not have the courage, like teams that beat us, to switch into the corridor? Why are we a boundary team?

4. Brett Ratten - Why did you have all summer to come up with a forward set up but still produce a side that is down at half time after leading the Inside 50's 31 to 19!!!!!! We should've been up by 5 goals!!!!

5. Brett Ratten - Why does Hawthorn flood back and suffocate our inside 50's, yet when we have the opportunity to do the same we leave their forward line open for long leads? Why aren;t our players taught to fill the space like Hawthorn's?

And why did you not put Jammo on Roughhead.

Yeah, Cloke and Wiggo were bad, as were some others, but the big con for me today was that the structures and set-ups were so inferior, that we couldn;t win despite dominating periods.

We have talent coming out of our ears. It needs to be harnessed!

_________________
They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

I know it's not Bentley's fault, but why was he selected

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Cheats never prosper (except in the AFL)

con
agree sv

Clarko showed the structures, the run, the how tos that we need. Get them right and we'll @#$%&! murder 'em.

pros

Oh god I luv Kruise and when he rested we ached!

Judd

Murph

our run with the ball - that we have

its our run without the ball that is hurting us - eg Hawks ability to run hard to the makr to slow us down was brilliant

we amble.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Pros:

We are improving

Cons:

we had a few players in the side who struggle against quality opposition.

simonverbeek, you should calm down and look at what the coach is trying to get the team to do, rather than what some of the players are doing when they feel under pressure. And it takes time to build discipline and confidence and decision making into players who had it stifled for 5 years.

the team on the park does not run as deep as Hawks ... so take some reality into comments about how great our list is.

I find the "without the ball" phase of the game so interesting. Lack of maturity, confidence and discipline from our lads.

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

When Fev took the grab I really thought we had it. Sensational game by the Blues, almost had them, almost!

Pro: Hawthorn don't look much better than us.

Pros

Judd
Murph
Kroooz
Fev
Best game of the year (outside losing)

Cons

Miss
Bentley
Cloke
Should have won.

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dane's trolling again

taff, its that part that we now need to grab hold of.

heady, sv is right - the next phase is now up to the coach. We have the players, select the right ones, place them in the right places and then teach them pressure.

But God its @#$%&! good to know we have the side - now we need to have the structures etc.

It comes down to the coaching staff now I reckon.

which is how it should be and has been for this club forever and a day (except the last few horrible years)

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I agree with the kickout setup. Waite should not have been kicking out.

I think the thing which lost us the game (besides the obvious) were a lack of strength - look at Sewell, he was able to bust his way through our tackles. We missed many tackles today due to a lack of strength.

We still kicked it to Fevola too often with three opponents but I guess when you are put under pressure you will go back to old habits.

We fumbled a lot today also due to the Hawks pressure...we had players loose but were unable to move the ball without coughing it up.

One other thing is when we mark the ball Hawthorn actually go over the mark...they pressure you that extra bit to give the rest of the team time to man up...that half a second is vital to getting free.

As one of the snipers assistants would say, we'll learn from that...I just wish there was improvement with regard to kickouts.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

PRO
-judd, kreuze, murph, bower...dissapointing to see them let down.
-fev..
-competitive against the premiers
-armfield did some nice things.
-sandilands might miss next week.

CONS
-bentley, wiggins, russell, cloke, thornton
-fev..

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"You don’t get much more Navy Blue than Stephen Kernahan" - Marc Murphy

Pro

Good team effort

Tackling /pressure applied well

Came back several times against good opposition

Fev excellent


kreuz murphy gibbs judd all good

Paul Bower beat Buddy

Could have stole it in the end

Joseph Arnfield both improving


Con

Disappointing to lose when we got so close

First 15 minutes of last quarter cost us

Cloke Setanta and Bentley all didnt really set the world on fire and changes required

Jacobs would have been handy today

Commentators who keep referring to how many hawthorn have out without any reference to any of ours

Pros
- we proved a lot today
- it wasn't a final
- no injuries
- we have players like Hadley, Yarran, Robinson, Hampson, Austin, Browne, Anderson and Garlett pressing for selection.

Cons
- MC selection of Bentley cost us the 4 points. Terrible selection considering Hadley and Robinson were available.
- Cloke. Love his heart but he isn't the future. Ditto Setanta......would give my left nut for a quality tall forward.

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There is no footy god

simonverbeek, I don't think Ratts was that bad.

He got the result he wanted in that the team had Hawthorn running a bit ragged towards he end of the game.

I'd be interested in the stats for our kick ins that ended in our F50 compared to Hawthor. They seemed to move the ball out at will whilst we struggled.

Pros

Fought it out to the end

Didn't allow ourselves to be intimidated

Kruz, Judd, Fev and Bower

Cons
we lost

The ease they moved the ball out from kick ins

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Everything before the word "but" is horseshit - J Snow

pro - its not coming easy for us this year 0- good, hope it fans the fires!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Pros
Coming back from 25 points down was fantastic - very heartening!
Stevo was so much better
Armfield's dash and courage
AJ - tough as Tasmanian myrtle
Jammo is so cool and composed

Cons
Kreuz desperately needs help
Bottom 6 - we all know who they are.
Not enough run to cover when they had the ball.
Fev's miss
Still one dimensional up forward when the pressure is on.

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

I agree with that post. Spot on.

We lost the game at the selection table, in the coaches box, and deserved to lose in the end with too many passengers!!

Why didnt Jameson play on Roughhead- ridiculous!

Im a Ratten fan and believe he will be a quality coach but our back 6 match ups were a disgrace- the exception was Franklin and credit where its due Bower on Franklin could be the making of #18.

We have missed Jameson dearly when he was injured. Refer to a finished, out of sorts Lloyd kicking 5 on Thornton in Rd 3. Absolutely stupidity!

Thornton is NOT a full back so why expose him again, particularly when Jameson was fit and on the park!!!! Ratten highlighted Jameson's importance in the press conferences. I dont get it. Ridiculous!!

We failed to handball through the zone and didnt have the marking power to kick over it.

And, why is Russell immune to being dropped. This special treatment is unfair!... Why is he never dropped and hard nuts in Hadley and Robinson are playing in the Bullants.

Cloke had a shocker, Houlihan struggled, Carrazzo did a job on an out of sorts Hodge but i thought some of his efforts were poor- but why was he used as a lead up forward?? All game! To cover his defficiences in his poor disposal?

AND... I didnt disagree with Bentley playing on Thursday despite the fact it was clearly the wrong decision and very costly.. But...

Why was he used on the Wing?????

He was bought into the side to add hardness but i barely saw him at one stoppage, and was exposed with his lack of speed going the other way.

Just plain stupid!!

As i said i am stoked to have Ratten as our coach, he instills a sense of 'identity' and i think he will become a successful coach. BUT, he was poor today. Very, very poor.

No, its not a knee jerk reaction, and this softly, softly, patient approach is wearing thin.

MOST of the players bust their backside and credit to the boys who do that week in week out but consistency of effort is the key and we found out today that Russel and Houlihan struggle when it counts and damned if i ever post something similar in September in the coming years when we get done on the big stage because we didnt have 22 players.

22 players must contribute, you CANNOT afford passengers particularly nowadays and i reckon we had at least 7 today... We did not deserve to win.

Yes we do but we don't want to risk it. It is a case of having other clubs with the same idea that are further advanced than us and are still not losing players through retirement. We need more key-position strength, further development in our running players and hope that we can successfully replace some of the 'chaff' still floating about.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Pros:
The Judd - what an amazing player
Fev - his marking was sensational
Murph - classy and works hard. Will be elite
Kruze - Absolute gun (pity the tall guy from WA can't get on the ground. Imagine the Kruse lurking around CHF!?)
Armfield - that smoother in the last quarter was awesome.
Joseph - goes well, will get better with experience
Betts - Didnt have his greatest game but worked hard and still was dangerous.
Russell - I thought did some nice things
Bower - Super defender
Hodge didn't tear us up for a change

Cons:
Cloke, Wiggins, Bentley offered very little. Our bottom six players are fumblers and dont hold their feet
Houlihan always struggles against the harder sides

PROS:

JUDD
Stevo
Murph
Kruezer
Gibbs
Army
Joseph
Fev
Bower


CONS:
Cloke - Had his worst game for the club today
Russell - Won't get dropped but geez how many times did he go to ground. Terrible today. Not up to it
Bentley- Didn't offer anything different and why he was picked baffles me.
Irish - Should be settled at CHB and not shuffled around like a deck of cards.

Pros:

Biggest pro... we're getting there! Some issues to sort out, but we are on the right path. Today was a small step forward. The big step forward will be when we beat Hawthorn, Geelong, St Kilda, Sydney, or Adelaide

Importantly, our players now know they can stretch sides like the Hawks. That's a massive improvement. As I say, the next step will be to win one.

Commentators said it, and they were right... we beat Hawthorn at the clearances. That's their strength, and we beat them at it.

Great games for heaps of our players. Kreuzer is magnificent. The usual suspects also pulled their weight.

Best game from stevo for a long, long time.

Joseph did very well on an extremely dangerous opponent.

Brad Sewell. Don't kick me off the site, but this bloke is my favourite player in an opposition team by a mile. Geez I wish we could somehow get him into our side. Just a magnificent player... you can have your Abletts or your Franklins or whoever - but Sewell is just a gun.

Our bottom six had their pants pulled down big time. Hopefully this gives opportunity for our MC to start weeding out some of the chaff.

Fev... you were magnificent overall. I look at reasons we lost, and don't worry - you weren't one of them. Well done, keep the chin up!

Cons:

Our bottom six. I won't name them, we all know who they are. But we aren't going places until they are replaced.

Bring Hammer in and leave him in for the rest of the season. Kreuzer gets little support from Cloke and O'Hailpin anyway, so why not pick a bloke who really needs to play and has plenty of upside?