Anyone else getting deja vous?

Careful! That could be swine flu...

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Just read on ninemsn that he has died. Although expected still comes as a shock. Maybe he was holding on until he was exonerated. Condolences to the Pratt Family.

Conundrum

Very sad news. Sad day for the Carlton footy club. Will be sorely missed.

Thoughts are with his family.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

sick of this being reported as being dropped due to his health and now its ramped up even more because of his death

vultures

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Cartel to Carlton

Terrible article by John Durie.

Get rid of the link. By clicking on it, we support what he's saying

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

No.

I will post like Melvey for this...

Carlton's saviour goes out fighting


Carlton were good enough to tank.

Essendon*, Richmond, Collingwood, Melbourne and Hawthorn were just plain bad.

Only Carlton cheats...


Good governance was followed by the AFL with Ron Evans' Spotless receiving a contract and the AFL abandoning their best fit policy to lock supporters out of games.

Only Carlton cheats...

I really don't want to read patrick smith's venomous bile.

Not today

Patrick Smith is a jerkoff, plain and simple. The snippets quoted here are the sum total of his words that I have read in something approaching 18 months, why you'd go out of your way to read the garbage he spews forth I don't know.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

A pretty balanced article by Patrick Smith I thought. Other than perhaps waiting until the man was in the ground for the article to come out, I didn't have a problem with it....but newspapers don't wait.

Wayne Swan wanted Samel out of the ACCC but did a deal with Rudd as he was the only person of significance willing to publicly back the FuelWatch programme.

In return for his backing, the Fed Gov would increase his powers to prosecute (surprise, surprise) price fixing cartels. He then went back on an agreement that a guilty plee would exonerate him against future charges.

What's Samuel going to do now that Dick's gone and he has no scalps to show for all his work?

Scrap heap.

@#$%&! off you dirty swine.

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end of message

He is going to watch the price of petrol jump about 15 cents today like the rest of us.

What really annoys me is the lack of facts as well as lazy journalists who never bothered “digging” a bit deeper. It is so much easier to just slam RP.

1) The famous $700 M figure which Pratt supposedly “ripped off Australians”: The proceedings NEVER established a figure. The amount was thrown up in the air by a lawyer who tried to entice companies to join a class action.

2) The cartel was established only for contracts for some large mostly multinational companies like Coca Cola who were squeezing the packaging companies. A few cents per carton make a big difference in this volume game. Do people really think that some savings on the packaging would have flown through to consumers? No these “multis” would have kept them. Do people actually know how little a % of total price the cardboard packaging of a box of soft drinks is?

3) Some of the reasons that a $ number could not be established was that a) the average price of cardboard increased less then CPI during the period the cartel was supposed to be in action. b) that one of the issues Visy raised was that the cartel in reality did not really work and was directed towards certain contracts and that the cartel had only a limited lifetime. Some people claim that Pratt killed it when he got wind of it – i.e. was not the initiator.

4) That Amcor had more to gain from a cartel as they were far weaker then Visy and could less afford the price war going on in the large client segment. Many claim it was Amcor who initiated it. They were just lucky that the ACCC went to them first and offered them to get off if they helped to get Pratt in trouble. One poster here on TC who once worked for the ACCC told us that a certain high profile person in the ACCC walked around the offices waiving triumphant the Pratt cheque around after Pratt paid the fine.

5) People do admit to things they did not do to finish these proceedings. Especially when its clear that Visy did act wrongly. There is still doubt how much Pratt initially knew about it.

I do not condone cartels, but I have always hated the way Pratt was treated in the media and the fact that the ACCC clearly was going after him at all cost. As the judge found a few days ago – you can’t use the statement agreed to close the civil case to prosecute Pratt for perjury. I am saddened that the tall poppy syndrome has to hit somebody who was a “model capitalist”. If all leaders of industry (and especially finance) had the ethics and social conscious of Pratt, this country would be a better place.

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TC suffers from the social media illness - the death of respect and constructive discourse by keyboard.

There is no doubt that the charges were dropped not on health issues but on the Judge's detailed finding that certain evidence was not admissable in the criminal proceeding. The Judge's detailed justification for this decision runs to over 50 pages of analysis and conclusions.

In the absence of the tainted evidence being admissable, the foundation (sic) for the Prosecuttion case collapses. Hence the No Proceeding outcome.

Cut to the Chase - what is needed at this time is to see the interpretation of the facts to date in the review by retired High Court Judge Ian Cullinan. By some reports thisinterpreation of teh facts blows out of the water the foundation (sic) for the prosecution of the criminal proceeding.

The recent legal action by solicitors for the Pratt familty to seek the return of the Orders of Australia that were voluntarily relinquished as soon as criminal charges were presented (and now legally annulled) is an important step.

As a statement of operating principle - You are assumed to be innocent until you receive a Guilty Verdict.

As no Guilty verdict has been provided in this case, innoncence must be assumed.
Hence a return to the status quo before criminal charges were lodged needs to occur.

It seems that a sick man was hounded to his grave.

Where is the justice in this action?