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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:54 am 
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Ken Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:15 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Blue Vain wrote:
If this thread appeared before the game, it would have some credibility.
Bagging selection after the event....meh, poor form.

At one stage we had 3.12. We dominated the first 40 minutes of the game and but for reasonable goalkicking, the game should have been over.
Footy is about taking your opportunities and we didn't. Bringing in Scotland and Carrazzo wouldn't have changed that a bit.

Some of the crap that gets posted here after a loss is disappointing. There's little logic. Just supporters venting their spleens.


UDAMAN BV....I agree.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:18 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Imagine the difference Alan Richardson and Daniel Rich would have made to this club by now. They probably woulda changed that damn slogan by now...

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:26 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Synbad wrote:
Rafalution wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
If this thread appeared before the game, it would have some credibility.
Bagging selection after the event....meh, poor form.

At one stage we had 3.12. We dominated the first 40 minutes of the game and but for reasonable goalkicking, the game should have been over.
Footy is about taking your opportunities and we didn't. Bringing in Scotland and Carrazzo wouldn't have changed that a bit.

Some of the crap that gets posted here after a loss is disappointing. There's little logic. Just supporters venting their spleens.


So a good forty minutes is whats required to be successful. FFS so what if we kicked 3.12There is still another half of footy...we lack commitment....the players at the moment have not acquired the heart to win games where a 4 qtr effort is required against reasonable oppostion.


Maybe you don't understand that even the best teams like Geelong can't play 4 quarters. They kill teams with a couple of patches of brilliance then hold when it's the oppositions turn.

If Carlton kicked straight, we dictate the play for the rest of the game, Sydney are forced to attack to get back into the game resulting in a contest played on our terms. Two weeks in a row we have lost because of poor finishing.




Rubbish!!!

Were expected to play a 1/4 of footy and if we kick straight we win and if we dont we lose????


Thanks Synbad...at least someone understands that footy is about 120 minutes not 30 minutes in the hope that we kick straight. Based on this warped logic at half time our guys have every reason to say to themselves "oh well we tried, missed a few shots we're a couple of goals down and so have no hope of winning this one..." Utter crap!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:49 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Rafalution wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
If this thread appeared before the game, it would have some credibility.
Bagging selection after the event....meh, poor form.

At one stage we had 3.12. We dominated the first 40 minutes of the game and but for reasonable goalkicking, the game should have been over.
Footy is about taking your opportunities and we didn't. Bringing in Scotland and Carrazzo wouldn't have changed that a bit.

Some of the crap that gets posted here after a loss is disappointing. There's little logic. Just supporters venting their spleens.


So a good forty minutes is whats required to be successful. FFS so what if we kicked 3.12There is still another half of footy...we lack commitment....the players at the moment have not acquired the heart to win games where a 4 qtr effort is required against reasonable oppostion.


Maybe you don't understand that even the best teams like Geelong can't play 4 quarters. They kill teams with a couple of patches of brilliance then hold when it's the oppositions turn.

If Carlton kicked straight, we dictate the play for the rest of the game, Sydney are forced to attack to get back into the game resulting in a contest played on our terms. Two weeks in a row we have lost because of poor finishing.




Rubbish!!!

Were expected to play a 1/4 of footy and if we kick straight we win and if we dont we lose????


Thanks Synbad...at least someone understands that footy is about 120 minutes not 30 minutes in the hope that we kick straight. Based on this warped logic at half time our guys have every reason to say to themselves "oh well we tried, missed a few shots we're a couple of goals down and so have no hope of winning this one..." Utter crap!!!


no we are expected to play 4 quarters and those moments when we dominate we need to pile on the goals and put the other team under pressure, we failed to do this, they then did and put us under pressure and we ended up playing their game. If we had have been 9:6 at half-time (still shite kicking) that's a 16 point lead and a different ball game. No one is saying we need to play 1 quarter of football but that when we dominate a quarter of football we need to make it count - cos we are not that good that we will dominate 4 quarters - not against Sydney up there.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:06 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Carltons Dominant first quarter Blues 3.5 to Swans 3.0
Swan third quarter Swans 3.5 to Blues 3.0

8 scoring shots to 3

Roles were reversed they were just as inaccurate as us during stages of the game

It was blowing a gale towards the end where we were kicking in the first quarter it dropped late in the game - But it was difficult to score goals at one end of of the ground and as the wind was partly across the field it might explain the inaccurate kicking .

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:47 am 
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Bruce Doull
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dannyboy wrote:
Some cows starve, having spent their life staring at the grass beyond their reach.

I like that....

Was it Malthouse?? :smile:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:53 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Most of the times you dont win on the selection table... you win it in the drilling and development.
All players must be able to come in and play a role to win.. and if 2 go out and 2 newies coe in they are part of an overall mecahnism .

Crows kind of try and do this..

Limited talent but machines.

We have uch more individual talent than most teams but dont have the oprganisation in our structures.

Half the time people scream to drop players and the other half to bring those same players back in...

Of course players should be dropped etc...

BUT..getting the structures and organsation right is much more important.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:17 am 
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Bruce Doull
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It seems that we have a very dogmatic approach to selection. We (MC) decide who we want to play a certain 'brand' of footy, and we won't waver in who we think is best to play that brand. We won a couple of games against ordinary opposition and think we've broken through for a top 4 spot. We're kidding ourselves.

Statistically we've got a player playing in the 2s that is as handy to us as Cloke is to the wobblers, yet for some reason we've stuck him in the basket and brought in, and kept in players that are either not up to it or need more time.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:24 am 
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formerly King Kenny
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Synbad wrote:
Most of the times you dont win on the selection table... you win it in the drilling and development.
All players must be able to come in and play a role to win.. and if 2 go out and 2 newies coe in they are part of an overall mecahnism .

Crows kind of try and do this..

Limited talent but machines.

We have uch more individual talent than most teams but dont have the oprganisation in our structures.

Half the time people scream to drop players and the other half to bring those same players back in...

Of course players should be dropped etc...

BUT..getting the structures and organsation right is much more important.


A good example is Hawthorn IMO. The core 25-26 players who win the GF last year has been drilled for 3 years learning Clarkson's game plan, they perfected it to a tee and won the GF as a result. In 2009 they are missing a large chunk of the core group and replaced them with kids, now Clarkson's game plan is being exposed as the new players who have come into the team haven't got the experience to carry out the plan. Add to this the Box Hill Hawks probably don't carry out the same tactics and you can see where things come undone in player development and adherence to a game plan when making selection changes.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:57 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Rafalution wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Most of the times you dont win on the selection table... you win it in the drilling and development.
All players must be able to come in and play a role to win.. and if 2 go out and 2 newies coe in they are part of an overall mecahnism .

Crows kind of try and do this..

Limited talent but machines.

We have uch more individual talent than most teams but dont have the oprganisation in our structures.

Half the time people scream to drop players and the other half to bring those same players back in...

Of course players should be dropped etc...

BUT..getting the structures and organsation right is much more important.


A good example is Hawthorn IMO. The core 25-26 players who win the GF last year has been drilled for 3 years learning Clarkson's game plan, they perfected it to a tee and won the GF as a result. In 2009 they are missing a large chunk of the core group and replaced them with kids, now Clarkson's game plan is being exposed as the new players who have come into the team haven't got the experience to carry out the plan. Add to this the Box Hill Hawks probably don't carry out the same tactics and you can see where things come undone in player development and adherence to a game plan when making selection changes.


Gameplans will always be taken apart.. picked apart and ultimately exposed.

The question is who will do it best?

And how well a team is prepared to keep their own gameplan strong whlst exploiting weaknessess in other gameplans

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:25 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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I have been accused of not 'getting' AFL.
I only have experience of other field team sports so help would be appreciated.

If a player is under performing, consistantly, what happens, do you bring someone in who might deserve a chance on the basis he can't be worse or do you leave him there, costing games in order to get his confidence back???

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:42 pm 
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Ken Hands
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I think that the selection has been pretty good. I think that we have suffered from poor kicking, which has translated into poor form.

This is a young group. We need to give the side time to gel. Making mass changes every week is reactive and not very strategic. Premierships are won on strategy. If the best 22 were selected in round 1, then it makes sense that we try to keep the faith with this young group as much as possible. A narrow loss to Essendon* and an average loss to Sydney in Sydney is not that devestating in my opinion.

I think that we miss Jamo, and with him out of the side we are left filling holes. Losing a key position player is always going to hurt and he is not as easily replaced as one of our midfielders would be. I would like to keep seeing the faith in the young guys. Afterall we criticised Pagan for keeping the young guys running around in the 2's.

Keep the faith people. I can see the future and we will beat the Bulldogs this week. And come Sunday evening we will be wondering what all the fuss is about.

We will make the finals this year.
we will win more than we lose this year.
Our players form will be up and down this year.
Ratts will be questioned then praised by the Carlton faithful this year.

We are 2 and 2 at the moment... Best start we've had to a season in many a year. Chill brothers, believe in the navy blue and white and you shall be rewarded.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:10 am 
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Harry Vallence

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blueslander wrote:
I think that we miss Jamo, and with him out of the side we are left filling holes. Losing a key position player is always going to hurt and he is not as easily replaced as one of our midfielders would be. I would like to keep seeing the faith in the young guys. Afterall we criticised Pagan for keeping the young guys running around in the 2's.

Which makes you wonder why we didn't replace Jamo AT ALL.

Gee, even Garry Lyon said on Footy Confidential that Jamo appears to be the most irreplaceable player in the side, so the lack of a KPP is obvious.

But Santy has previously played as a key position defender, and has been in good form in the Bullants. Why wasn't he called on to replace Jamo? Was the problem that Ratts is devoted to the idea of having a core of rebounding defenders? Imagine if Santy had done well? That would have been most inconvenient, especially if he performed well enough to make it hard to demote him. Better to go in a key position defender down rather than risk that, and pray that Jamo returned quickly.

It reminds me of Douglas Bader's stubborn obsession with the Big Wing Theory in the Battle of Britain. He figured that if the RAF could scramble 3-5 squadrons of fighters, they could join up in a really big air wing which could smash the German formations. Only problem was that it took so long to assemble such a Big Wing that it wasn't of much use defending against German raids. Nevertheless, Bader remained certain that it was the way to go - a triumph of hope over experience.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:09 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Indie wrote:
blueslander wrote:
I think that we miss Jamo, and with him out of the side we are left filling holes. Losing a key position player is always going to hurt and he is not as easily replaced as one of our midfielders would be. I would like to keep seeing the faith in the young guys. Afterall we criticised Pagan for keeping the young guys running around in the 2's.

Which makes you wonder why we didn't replace Jamo AT ALL.

Gee, even Garry Lyon said on Footy Confidential that Jamo appears to be the most irreplaceable player in the side, so the lack of a KPP is obvious.

But Santy has previously played as a key position defender, and has been in good form in the Bullants. Why wasn't he called on to replace Jamo? Was the problem that Ratts is devoted to the idea of having a core of rebounding defenders? Imagine if Santy had done well? That would have been most inconvenient, especially if he performed well enough to make it hard to demote him. Better to go in a key position defender down rather than risk that, and pray that Jamo returned quickly.

It reminds me of Douglas Bader's stubborn obsession with the Big Wing Theory in the Battle of Britain. He figured that if the RAF could scramble 3-5 squadrons of fighters, they could join up in a really big air wing which could smash the German formations. Only problem was that it took so long to assemble such a Big Wing that it wasn't of much use defending against German raids. Nevertheless, Bader remained certain that it was the way to go - a triumph of hope over experience.


Taking pot shots at highly decorated one legged war heros now Indie
4 years in a NAZI prison camp one of the best fighter pilots during the war

Lucky your saying it today a fews back you would have been hung drawn and quartered

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:27 am 
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Harry Vallence

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That's funny SB :lol:

Do some research and you'll see that there's quite a bit of controversy over the Big Wing Theory. There was at the time, and there still is. No one doubts that he was a brilliant fighter pilot or his bravery, but that doesn't mean all of his ideas were correct. But it's interesting you'd choose that as your point of attack.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:34 am 
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Rod Ashman

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We missed easy shots, but does anyone think maybe our snail like ball movement with the apparent plan of getting it to a man standing on the boundary to have a shot could have something to do with it? Any chance we might try and use the corridor to try and ensure the bulk of our shots are more gettable.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:40 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Indie wrote:
That's funny SB :lol:

Do some research and you'll see that there's quite a bit of controversy over the Big Wing Theory. There was at the time, and there still is. No one doubts that he was a brilliant fighter pilot or his bravery, but that doesn't mean all of his ideas were correct. But it's interesting you'd choose that as your point of attack.


In most peoples eyes Badar was a hero - I prefer to leave it at that - people often try to change history to suit themselves - At the time their may have been people questioning his tactics even the big wing which people still argue about whether it was successful or not. But to the majority of Britts he was a legend and a hero

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:47 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Lucky that this is an Aussie site, then. To all of those English people reading this in England, I apologise profusely :razz:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:31 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Big Wing theory sucked, as SB said it took to long to assemble, meanwhile the Germans had carried out thier bombing runs and were toddling off home. Three things beat the Germans during the Blitz. 1st thier fighters were operating at the extent of thier range and were unable to engage in any more than a few minutes of dog fighting. 2 The sheer aggressiveness of the RAF pilots, the Spits tangled with the fighter escort while the Hurricanes went after the bombers. 3 The fighting was over England, thus every German shot down, even if not killed was lost to the cause, Whereas the English pilots could return to the fight, there were many instances of pilots being shot down twice in a day. Big Wing theory was contraversial in its day and hotly debated within the RAF, while not suitable for the Battle of Britian a modified version was later used in fighter swepts across occupied France, particlarly against ground targets.

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