Maybe not a dud... just would be really crap if he had to play for us.......

Egan hasn't played for a long time, Gilham is a dud who is helped enormously by the Hawks all ground pressure, Morris isn't genuine KP size, Tom Harley isn't very good man on man either...he's good when he can play loose, read the play and cut off inside 50s but one on one he can be exposed. Jamison has the ability to hold the full forward, unfortunately injury meant Bradshaw cut loose and then he missed this week so couldn't play on Lloyd. I still believe if Bower can put on some more size he has the closing speed to be able to play CHB, as he has shown against someone like Travis Cloke.

I think Austin is more suited to reading the ball coming in rather than playing on a quick leading forward or hard leading CHF.

And imagine how good Darren Pfeiffer would be if he played for the Hawks

I say our issue is that the current 4 down back are similar type's players. T-bird, Jammo, Bower and Waite are all same height and at best half back flankers and not genuine FB or CHB's. None of them other than Waite create any drive off half back which adds to what i see as our biggest issue the lack of any run off half back.

Now those who argue Setanta is no good, well i didn't see T-bird, Jammo, Waite and Bower hold down Bradshaw and Brown two weeks ago. Bradshaw kicked 6 and brown 4, Llyody bagged himself 5 and Lucas 2. Setanta has amazing closing speed, is able to get a fist in and does not hold back. HE IS A MONSTER who can fill a role freeing up a T-bird to become a more rebounding defender (more on that later)

We need to settle on two talls down back. For mine those two are Jammo and Setanta to fill those two key posts and surround them with 6 who can rotate through the backline and create run off half back. The likes of Armfield, Johnson, Browne, Scottland and Joseph. Unfortunately we have programed Thornton into this lethargic type player who skips around. T-bird needs to get on his bike and use his best asset (his kicking) to our advantage splitting the game open and hitting the likes of Armfield and Brown who should be busting there arses out of defense ala Chance Bateman.

The Dogs have Lake and Morris, Cats had Scarlett and Egan, Hawks have Croad and Gilham. Two talls and then are surrounded by mid to smalls with plenty of drive.

Waitey should be played on a wing kind of a Richo role who can pinch hit up forward or plug a hole down back.

You went to a alot of trouble and rationalisation to try to refute what was a perfectly good point. Sometimes the more things change the more they stay the same. You have good KP players it puts the icing on a great midfield. Tough to win flags without them. Ask the Bulldogs.

Bower's been thin for years, always will be. Setanta is easily the best option at CHB, especially as it frees up so many others to play their natural role. Has most of what's needed to play there.

Gilham a dud?....You're kidding. Fit nicely here.

You attack from defence
and defend from attack

The game has changed a little bit recently if you hadn't quite noticed

You attack from defence
and defend from attack


The game has changed a little bit recently if you hadn't quite noticed

That's a pretty simplistic comment.

Do you care to elaborate?

Are you saying there's no need for good defenders down back?

Pfft.

Yes, the game has changed to the extent you need run from defense, but you also need to stop the goals when it gets down there.

Terribly simplistic comment by SB.

You attack from defence
and defend from attack


The game has changed a little bit recently if you hadn't quite noticed

I think VB is on to something. He’s not saying we won’t win games or have a decent percentage with our current defensive line-up. He’s saying we won’t win a premiership. I tend to agree.

Your best users of the footy have to set up play from the back line at the moment the better user of the footy are Johnson - stevens and Scotland - they may be soft but you want them with the ball in their hands - that is why even DP shifted Houla to defence

Sorry the tough nut back flanker left the game some time ago with maybe the exception of Hodge but he is rare .

So this is why blokes like Wiggens and Russell get selected forward they are the back flankers of years gone by their job now is to shut down these soft ball users - the game has been turned around .

It is quite a simple game when you sit back and watch what is happening

there are defensive defenders
there are attacking defenders
there are defensive forwards
there are attacking forwards
the rest are midfielders who sould be doing both but even some of them have defensive roles and attacking roles


and it the bench ever gets extended to 6 which will happen sooner rather than later you will see the introducton of offensive and defensive bench players

but thats for some years in the future

Your best users of the footy have to set up play from the back line at the moment the better user of the footy are Johnson - stevens and Scotland - they may be soft but you want them with the ball in their hands - that is why even DP shifted Houla to defence

Sorry the tough nut back flanker left the game some time ago with maybe the exception of Hodge but he is rare .

So this is why blokes like Wiggens and Russell get selected forward they are the back flankers of years gone by their job now is to shut down these soft ball users - the game has been turned around .

It is quite a simple game when you sit back and watch what is happening

there are defensive defenders
there are attacking defenders
there are defensive forwards
there are attacking forwards
the rest are midfielders who sould be doing both but even some of them have defensive roles and attacking roles


and it the bench ever gets extended to 6 which will happen sooner rather than later you will see the introducton of offensive and defensive bench players

but thats for some years in the future