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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:30 pm 
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John James
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I'm with most people's sentiments that Johnson doesn't have the defensive abilities to play down back, sweet kick though. I suppose his role is to release Jarred Waite further up the ground and that part of the move certainly worked, but I don't think the rest of the defense doesn't feel quite as comfortable with Johnson down there.

The pressure in the forward line was a key and for now they should keep the same setup, so for the next game i'd go Johnson for Grigg, no more changes. If Walker is fit enough to add the same amount of pressure as Garlett, then swapping the two is the obvious option. Yarran would have to improve his fitness and wait for his turn.


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:30 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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I cant believe anyone would consider dropping Joseph. :?
Don't look at his disposal tally, look at the roles he's performing for the team.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:33 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Blue Vain wrote:
I cant believe anyone would consider dropping Joseph. :?
Don't look at his disposal tally, look at the roles he's performing for the team.



I think it is called clutching at straws

you could clearly see Joseph and Russell were given heavy tagging roles and the effect their opponents had were very minimal -

Luke Power and Simon Black are going to wearing second skins next week by the names of Joseph and Russell

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:37 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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it's all about who is pushing up for selection rather than who to drop.

what a wonderful place to be :thanks:

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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moshe25 wrote:
aramari wrote:
I love him, but Garlett doesn't have the strength to play much serious footy yet.

Walker in for him

Houlihan might be under pressure for Stevens in round 3 but I'd like to see him stay in

Fev might need a week off to fix his foot

Grigg must come in - don't know who to drop for him, maybe Bower, who hasn't found his form of last year yet. Loathe to drop him though.

Leave Joseph in, the boy is exactly what we need - incredible improvement over the pre-season

WE"RE IN GREAT SHAPE


Makes sense. Drop an elusive will o the wisp forward for a midfielder/hbf; drop Houlihan who had 29 touches; and drop a CHB for a wingman. I think that'll fly. Oh, and also, we'll have 4 changes in a side that won by 83 points.

Great!!


I think you missed the point Moishele, about 8 times :grin:

Do I think Walker is a better half forward/ goal kicker than Garlett? YES
Do i have anything against Garlett? NO
Do I want us to drop Houlihan? NO
Is Stevens likely to come straight back in, playing a similar role to Houlihan? YES
If Fev needs a rest, should he have one? YES
Will Walker, Stevens and Grigg wallow in the seconds all season? NO
Hence the thread? YES
Have you suggested how to fit 25 into 22? NO


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:45 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
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Location: South Yarra
aramari wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
aramari wrote:
I love him, but Garlett doesn't have the strength to play much serious footy yet.

Walker in for him

Houlihan might be under pressure for Stevens in round 3 but I'd like to see him stay in

Fev might need a week off to fix his foot

Grigg must come in - don't know who to drop for him, maybe Bower, who hasn't found his form of last year yet. Loathe to drop him though.

Leave Joseph in, the boy is exactly what we need - incredible improvement over the pre-season

WE"RE IN GREAT SHAPE


Makes sense. Drop an elusive will o the wisp forward for a midfielder/hbf; drop Houlihan who had 29 touches; and drop a CHB for a wingman. I think that'll fly. Oh, and also, we'll have 4 changes in a side that won by 83 points.

Great!!


I think you missed the point Moishele, about 8 times :grin:

Do I think Walker is a better half forward/ goal kicker than Garlett? YES
Do i have anything against Garlett? NO
Do I want us to drop Houlihan? NO
Is Stevens likely to come straight back in, playing a similar role to Houlihan? YES
If Fev needs a rest, should he have one? YES
Will Walker, Stevens and Grigg wallow in the seconds all season? NO
Hence the thread? YES
Have you suggested how to fit 25 into 22? NO


Athough I will say that Stevens needs to be at his best if this team is to carry his defensive incompetence.


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:48 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:01 pm
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Blue Vain wrote:
I cant believe anyone would consider dropping Joseph. :?
Don't look at his disposal tally, look at the roles he's performing for the team.


+1, mightn't be great in your supercoach team but has done all that's been asked of him all year.


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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:01 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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AK43 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
I cant believe anyone would consider dropping Joseph. :?
Don't look at his disposal tally, look at the roles he's performing for the team.


+1, mightn't be great in your supercoach team but has done all that's been asked of him all year.


That's the problem with a lot of fans today, they look at stat sheets and Dream Team scores and use them to form their opinions on how players went.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:04 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
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Location: Bendigo
Johnson will eventually catch up to the required workrate - remember where he has come from the last few years... He may yet prove himself long term. I think his spot is justified.

Joseph did some good things that Carrots couldn't do, but Carrots wins a lot of ball in that space. The way we worked in groups running in lanes might be just the thing Carrots needs. Certainly room for Bentick in this regard, but what to do with him when we don't have the ball?... Hard to see either of those skills being more valuable than Joseph's pace and pressure. Its the run downs that force the most turnovers in attacking positions (anywhere up to the defensive edge of the square). Trouble with Carrots and Bentick is that if you see them, you've beaten them - run around AB and through Carrots.

Robbo, Joseph, Fev, Eddie, Hadley all showed the value of tackles that win you back posession or force a stoppage. Most of AB's tackles are already at stoppages. I think Joseph might get the squeeze round three for Stevo if injuries don't open up opportunities for him in other roles. If Grigg can't lock it down, Armfield might get a crack at that defensive role before the season is out.

Garlett did well in his first big taste, but he was out of steam midway through the third quarter and thus, had lost his biggest weapon. He should play next week, but he will need some production to show that he is not just spinning his wheels. That may be the difference between him and Chris Yarran. With a bigger, more conditioned body and an opportunist's intuition Yarran might make a significant impact on the competition.... but I cannot see both playing in the side without Eddie being played in the midfield more than his current rotation. Garlett will most likely make way for Walker when the latter's shoulders are ready to meet the standards he needs for his athletic game.

Massive whispers getting about before the game for Fev's foot injury, and he looked to be carrying on TV. Richmond wouldn't have seen it, but those watching the game could. He should be right to get through next week with a similar type game - keeping Merrett out of the contest and forcing Drummond and others to commit some attention to him.... but we would have to have everything go right - 90% strike rate from Wiggo, Fisher and Russell - to carry him. We won't get 35 good chances every week.

Grigg, Walker, Stevens, Hampson, Armfield, Fisher, Carrazzo and Yarran all knocking on the door in the early part of the season. Warnock and possibly O'Keefe later in the year. Austin, Anderson, Bannister and Browne ready to play roles down back as the personel dictates.

The lid is rattling.... but lets see how we come out of Sydney, Bulldogs, Hawthorn in rounds 4-6.... 5-1 will get them nervous.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:07 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Donstuie wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Those who can't see the progress Russell makes week after week go in with pre-conceived ideas.

No, we don't. I'm truly sick of reading this anytime someone voices the opinion that JR needs to do more to keep his spot, especially given the number of players to come back. It's alright to rip the shit out of Stevo, Carrots, Thornton and Houlihan at every opportunity, but question JR's position and it's suddenly "agenda...bias...pre-conceived ideas".


Stevo, Carrots, Thornton and Houlihan probably have 700 games between them.

Some kids take longer than others, the point is he's showing improvement. He won't improve playing Bullants. Look at Simpson, even Gibbs & Fevola, they hardly set the world on fire early in their careers. same applies to Thornton.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:12 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 10:32 am
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Location: east coast
I think Fev is a worry . I've had bruised heels , and they hang on for a while .

To get him back to proper fitness , he needs a week or 2 off . Better to do it now than have him at half pace for a while and then still have to do it .
I know that boots are a lot better now than when I played , and the grounds are much better , but , bruised heels are bloody sore , and obviously the injections didn't work properly .

I reckon rest him now when we have players to come back , and get him right .

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Those who can't see the progress Russell makes week after week go in with pre-conceived ideas.

No, we don't. I'm truly sick of reading this anytime someone voices the opinion that JR needs to do more to keep his spot, especially given the number of players to come back. It's alright to rip the shit out of Stevo, Carrots, Thornton and Houlihan at every opportunity, but question JR's position and it's suddenly "agenda...bias...pre-conceived ideas".


Stevo, Carrots, Thornton and Houlihan probably have 700 games between them.

Some kids take longer than others, the point is he's showing improvement. He won't improve playing Bullants. Look at Simpson, even Gibbs & Fevola, they hardly set the world on fire early in their careers. same applies to Thornton.

We're not talking about some rookie here. JR's been in the system for 5 years now, which is ample time to see what he's made of. You can't compare him to these other guys, as it didn't take these guys 5 years in the system to start "showing improvement". All were key players by this point, having to shoulder heavy loads in very ordinary teams I might add. Whether or not he's showing improvement isn't the issue, as we all know he is, but we're well within our rights to ask whether the improvement is sufficient to keep him in the team ahead of others ready to come back into the senior team. In my opinion, and others, it isn't. Accept it, and leave this bulldust about pre-conceived ideas at the door please, it's really tiresome. Grigg, Fish and Walker won't improve in the bullants either.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:30 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:28 am
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GWS wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Oh and I thought Houla (and I have bagged him in the past) was sensational last night - funny what pressure does to your own players, let alone the other team's.


That is funny.

I'm usually defending Houlihan but I thought he butchered it a bit last night which is really unusual for him. Looked low on confidence compared to the rest of the side and that punch away when he should have marked out on the wing was just one example.

Certainly no need to drop him but someone's got to make way for Grigg somewhere. Joseph's probably the one but a shame considering I thought it was a pretty solid debut.
I'd keep Joseph in, its tough at the moment with selection. Would be a great matchup for Luke Power and then the next week that slimy, women bashing turd that seems to have a field day against us in Lovett.

They're not fashionable but i've secretly been dreaming about a Steven Baker type that harrasses and sends players crazy when opposed to them. The beauty with Joseph is that he has agility and pace, something we need.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:52 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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GWS wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Oh and I thought Houla (and I have bagged him in the past) was sensational last night - funny what pressure does to your own players, let alone the other team's.


That is funny.

I'm usually defending Houlihan but I thought he butchered it a bit last night which is really unusual for him. Looked low on confidence compared to the rest of the side and that punch away when he should have marked out on the wing was just one example.

Certainly no need to drop him but someone's got to make way for Grigg somewhere. Joseph's probably the one but a shame considering I thought it was a pretty solid debut.


I'm usually a big fan of Houla as well but his lack of intensity came back to bite him several times last night.
Unfortunately he'd go before Joseph in my books. AJ kept the clamps on Brown and Cousins when they went forward which is a great scalp for him.
He's a keeper for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:56 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Donstuie wrote:
Accept it, and leave this bulldust about pre-conceived ideas at the door please, it's really tiresome. Grigg, Fish and Walker won't improve in the bullants either.


Take a nap.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:10 pm 
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I don't think it's a case of dropping anyone but rather selecting the best team to play against a particular team.

If we don't have match ups for player X, Y and Z, then those players will get dropped and be replaced with players who will have an impact on the game and their direct opponent.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:32 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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DownUnderChick wrote:
I don't think it's a case of dropping anyone but rather selecting the best team to play against a particular team.

If we don't have match ups for player X, Y and Z, then those players will get dropped and be replaced with players who will have an impact on the game and their direct opponent.


:clap:

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:38 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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budzy wrote:
None of them deserve to be dropped.


Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Those who can't see the progress Russell makes week after week go in with pre-conceived ideas.


Not the point. Walker and Grigg are positive additions to the squad next week; you could argue that save for Johnson's kicking, the pairing of Grigg and Walker is an upgrade on Russell and Johnson in every way.

If they're fit, they come in.

It's what to do to bring in Armfield as Doc has astutely noted. Eddie might not be fit for next week which makes the decision for you, otherwise it might be Garlett. That pushes someone from midfield into the forward line to create the defensive pressure. I'm thinking Simpson or Murphy.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:50 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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I agree that we need to be more focused on the best team for next week rather than the relative merits of individual players. This week we thought the tigers were soft and that forward pressure would cause them to turn it over, it worked. Next week we will be playing a mob that definately arent soft.

As good as he was and as much as i reckon the lad is fantastic, Garlett looked like he was out of petrol tickets in the last qtr. i also fear that somebody like Merrett might catch him napping and snap him in half (ala Cloke on Cousins).

i would have 1AW in for garlett.

Not sure how I'd get Grigga into the team. CJ's delivery was 1st class, morton was the wrong match up for him, no way would I be leaving him out of the team, in fact I'd leave Scotland out before CJ. i thought scoots looked underdone last night, was caught a couple of times.

I've been botha a houla dand a JR knocker but I thought they were both awesome last night, no way I'd drop either.

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 Post subject: Re: So who do we drop?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:01 pm 
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Garry Crane

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Russell will obviously stay in the team so I wont suggest him. I thought Cloke looked too slow in that forward line, he may not be an automatic selection anymore, particularly with the massive improvement of Jacobs and the availability of Hampson and Kruezer.

Walker has to come in, along with Grigg, both are in the best 22.

I think:

Out: Cloke, Joseph (sorry mate)

In: Walker, Grigg

Bloody hard to find room for Stevens, Carazzo and Fisher.

Certainly have come a long way from the days of Digby Morell, Trent Sporn and Cory McGrath.

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