I agree, and I think Jacobs should be that guy... and given Warnock's status I would suggest leaving him on the rookie list for the time being.

Yes he's been good, but he's been borderline outside of ruckwork. He needs to do a bit more. blu944 noted that he has a problem keeping his feet, which hasn't undone him in the pre-season but I fear it may in the regular season based on the last two games. Also, Ratten's decision to put him deep in defence against Geelong was a mistake and Jacobs showed that with a poor kick and inability to cover.

Easily the slowest bloke on our list. Reserve ruckman who would have been a bigger part of football 20 years ago. As soon as one of other four ruck options goes down (not counting Setanta here) we bring him up.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

i recon if everything about Cloke was the same as it is now but he was just at least 4cm taller i recon he'd be an absolute superstar of the AFL...one of the best ruckmen in the comp.

i see vision of him standing next to a Gibbs or Walker and he's not that much taller, yet is still competitive in the ruck...imagine if he was 200cm+ !!

I really rate his marking and kicking for goal.

Also, if Hampson learned how to mark a football, he'd be a pretty decent player with some real weapons. His agility is astounding. His chase against of one of the cats on the weekend caused him to spill the ball...geez he was fast.

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Carlton Premiers '10

I agree as well.
Jacobs has done OK in the NAB Cup but I think he would get found out at AFL level. Worth keeping on the list as a backup ruckman however.

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There is no footy god

once again,
bower jamison thornton
stevens austin grigg
simpson gibbs scotland
houlihan waite robinson
betts fevola hampson

warnock judd murphy

i/c; kreuzer walker hadley yarran

any; carrazzo fisher armfield browne gartlett russell johnson

Update time.

B: Joseph Bower Jamison
HB: Scotland Thornton Johnson
C: Simpson Gibbs Waite
HF: Walker Cloke Houlihan
F: Betts Fevola Robinson
Foll: Kruezer Judd Murphy
Int: Warnock Grigg Hadley Stevens

Skill, Speed, Goal kicking options & Versatility

Plus others who wouldn't be out of place: Wiggins, Carrazzo, Armfield, Garlett, Russell, Browne, Anderson, Yarran, Hampson, Jacobs, Austin,

Maybes: Fisher, Bentick, Bannister, Setanta.

Not a chance: Edwards, Hartlett.

Love that bench, few teams could muster a bench that looks as good as:
Int: Warnock Grigg Hadley Stevens

If your teamsheet has that bench, you know you're in with a chance against anybody!

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"It was like calling your ex girlfriend after a night on the booze, just a really bad decision".

for the first time i can remember i have my best 22 with players missing that i really wanted in the side. a far cry from the days where i'd put in 5 or 6 players just to fill in the numbers. this is how i think our best 22 looks when everyone is fully fit:

FB: thronton jamison joseph
HB: stevens bower grigg
C: waite judd walker
HF: robinson wiggins houlihan
FF: betts fevola simpson
RR: kreuzer gibbs murphy
INT: cloke carrazzo hadley scotland
EMG: warnock fisher johnson

a couple of notes from that team:
-the starting 18 aren't necessarily the best 18, just the rotations i would want going through the middle, for example i don't like carrazzo playing anywhere but midfield and since he isn't good enough to start there i have him rotating through there.

-i would play simpson on a wing, not in the forward pocket but i had to have him somewhere on the ground.

-apologies to garlett and russell

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Last edited by true_blue3 on Mon Sep 26, 1981 5:07 pm; edited 92 times in total

I find it quite strange that 9 out of 10 people on TC have Warnock in the best 22 , when he did very little in 3 seasons with Fremantle , and has done nothing at all with us .
And don't fall for the 206 cr@p . Peter Street is as tall as that too .

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Get the facts first.
Then you can distort them at your leisure.

This is what we need to be aiming for. Our issue that last few weeks has been tackling and running the lines and kicking longer to position.

Spoke to a leading recruiter last week who said that their number one priority has been players that are NATURAL kickers of the ball. This being that the player can not just kick long but to position and the advantage of a teammate especially under pressure. IMO this is something we lack.

Of our current list our best 25 regarding this criteria would be:

B: Armfield Jamison Thornton
HB: Anderson Austin Johnson
C: Simpson Gibbs Scotland
HF: Garlett Kruezer Waite
F: Betts Fevola Robinson
Foll: Warnock Judd Murphy
Int from: Yarran Grigg Hadley Stevens Houlihan Walker Russell

Prefer a backline filled with those who move it on at all costs before the other team get a chance to set up and choke us out to the wings. Thats why i would have Waite in there and one of Steven, Simpson, Gibbs or even Scotland.

Id be happy to concede a few goals if it meant getting some dash into our game. If we get run out of the backine it is amazing how the mids and forwards will all suddenly look a whole lot better.

Saints proving the above point by loading their defence with dash they all of a sudden look a million bucks. The backmen are not even very good kicks either. They just run and move it on by hand and overlap. Last couple of weeks we have had none of that.

A backline with 2 talls that are instructed to move it on quick (major reprogramming for thornton) and the a bunch of quick nimble players who really want to run. This might cost us a few goals but we will score easier and it will set games up in our favour in my opinion.

You'd have to name Walker in your best 22 ahead of Anderson if that's the criteria.

Walker can bang it long to position 50 metres of either foot after giving a don't argue and exploding out of the middle. Walkz did that to Swallow in the NAB Cup a few years ago and hit Fev in between 3 players on his left with a 50 metre pass. Walker's pass to Fev at the Gabba in round 21 last year was drilled lace out off one step with power and precision.

Just a fantastic kick.

Yes, amazing. Everyman and his dog picked Johnson in their teams as well and now most of them are baying for his blood. Bottom line, all Warnock has done so far is add 6cms and a limp to our list.

Totally agree but their defenders do kick well to position. Guys like Gram, Goddard, Gilbert, Fisher run through defence and provide great drive. Geelong do the same thing with Mackie, Scarlett, Milburn, Enright etc. Hawthorn have Brown, Young, Gilham, Croad, Hodge etc. The Bulldogs try and do the same thing. The problem for us is that some guys we try aren't accountable enough to play back there.

We have not seemed to find that balance yet. Guys like Anderson, Austin, Walker, Armfield, Brown, Jamison, Waite are our defensive future. Personally I would like to see Yarran learn to play of HB and Gibbs as well in a Hodge role.

A have no issue with Walker down in defence. He would give us run and can kick long but don't underestimate Anderson. He has had his first full preseason and just needs some game time and confidence. He was a very good kick as a junior and on the weekend he showed that he wasn't far away form getting back there.

The best sides now load up from defence and launch their attacks from there. We don't seem to have grasped that yet. We tend to hold the ball up and chip it around thus letting our fwd line get flooded back on.

For me I would line up this way in the future

B: Anderson Jamison Walker
HB: Yarran Austin Gibbs
Waite

C: Simpson Hadley Robinson Grigg
Foll: Warnock Judd Murphy

HF: Garlett Kruezer
F: Betts Fevola

Int from: Stevens Houlihan Russell Browne Armfield Setanta Carrazzo Scotland

Now you are talking. Backline at least. If we can get that attacking and running hard the rest will fall into place.

Might have Bower ahead of Austin though.

I thought yesterday's game and the last few Bullants games have given us a good idea of where we are heading.

B: Joseph Bower Jamison
HB: Anderson Austin Gibbs
Waite

C: Walker Hadley Grigg Stevens
Foll: Warnock Judd Murphy

HF: Garlett Kruezer
F: Betts Fevola

Int: Yarran Houlihan Scotland Carrazzo

IMHO that side would challenge most others!

For me, my best 22 would probably be

B: Joseph Jamison Austin
HB: Waite Bower Scotland


C: Judd Murphy Armfield
Foll: Warnock Gibbs Grigg

HF: Walker Kruezer Wiggins
F: Betts Fevola Yarran

Int: Hampson Stevens Houlihan Robinson

Depth from - Jacobs, carazzo, russell, hadley, simpson, anderson, browne, gartlett, thornton, fisher

It depends on what you mean by "where we are heading". What's the destination?

I have a problem with one ruckman.

You only need a well executed corky to your No 1 ruckman to take him out early in a Grand Final. That would leave you with no CHF and no reasonable rotation option for the ruck role.

We have to feed our elite squadran of midfielders....in fact I believe we should aim to win more than 50% of ball ups.

I still believe Hampson is the future...yeah miles ahead of Jacbs, Setanta, Cloke....and may end up better than Warnock. Sandilands will be gone in a couple of years. Cox, Lade, Brogan, Charman, Jolly, Hille, King, Gardiner too. After that its just the Warnock, Hammer and Kreuzer ruck show supported by the Magnificent Seven in the midfield.... I reckon

I'd say Anderson is going to have a tough time removing Armfield.

No Waite and Walker on the wings

But yeah it's a good team.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue