They were not number 1 picks though were they.

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Whats infuriating is your anal ysis...

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The Hawks will overlook another champion and pick 3 will be the next Judd!

I agree, that it is yet to be proven that finishing last is the only way to win a flag, picking number one to 5 selections in the draft is still a chancy business, but less chancy than it has been in the past and a bit less chancy each year that passes.

How many smokeys have been superstars since Hird at pick 74 or whatever he was?

If it is still possible to win a flag without top draft picks, then because of impoved ranking and identification of the best young players, that possibility is getting thinner with each year that passes.

The name of the game is to take the best opportunities that present themselves.

Finish 15th or 16th, we will undoubtably do that, but we will have a better future team if we pick the absolute best talent in any given draft rather than talent that is very very good, but not the very very best..



.

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My Blue Heaven

There are as many roads to the premiership as there are grains of sand on Bondi Beach. The thing is they are next to impossible to get hold of. Technically each club should have a 1 in 16 possibility each year, but the odds are worse than that. Some clubs have been rebuilding for years. They get close, maybe third or fourth, or even second, then they fall back and start to rebuild again, only to finish third or fourth, or maybe second.

And so the cycle goes.

In a league where the talent is shared around very evenly there will be plenty of ways to win a flag for plenty of teams, but there is one imperituve and that is to have sufficient talent in a side first.

The reason Carlton is where we are has to do with a number of things, but many of these things are linked to a common factor, skill and talent at playing football.

St Kilda have come good after losing a number of top players through injury because they have players of sufficient talent to cover their losses and/or lift individual performances where needed.

We lose all the time because we dont have enough talent, which feeds into a lack of confidence which in turn feeds into a bad attitude - and so the cycle perpetuates itself.

How many mediocre sides have won flags over the past 15 years?

Answer = None. The cups all belong to sides that had or have liberal doses of A grade player talent.

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My Blue Heaven

I don't think anyone could possibly disagree with you.

If no one disagrees with that, then why go down the many pathways to a flag line of reasoning.

All I am saying is that a player like Murphy is as others have recognised - an elite talent.

We desperately need this level of talent. Its something we havent had for quite a while at Carlton.

When we went out and bought flags, before the draft came in, we got Kernahan, Bradley and Motley - to complement many already good and great players.

Tragically. Motley didnt get to the heights the others climbed to, but getting elite talent into the club got us a flag in 1987 - only a couple of years after these guys came to Carlton..

Murphy seems very much an elite football talent, so although ther are no guarantees of snaring exactly who we want, we must put ourselves in the best possible position in order to get him, even if this means finishing last.

Ok I will be happy enough to get picks 2 and 4, but not as happy if we get picks 1 and 3.

Fact is that unlike in 1986, we have to go through this football draft bureaucracy now to get the talent that we need to have the succss that we all wish for. Its unpleasant, but necessary..

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My Blue Heaven

You sound like an Elliot man to me, and so do a lot of the other tankers. Quick fixes please, don't spare the superstars.

Before 1986-87 Carlton did not buy premierships, we were smarter than the other clubs.

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Actually I dislike Elliot with a passion, but the fact was that in 1986, he tried to buy a flag.

All I am doing is stating what happened at the time.

Also I'm not into 'quick fixes' as much as I am into getting the best quality players we can into the club while we are a St Kilda esque struggling team.

A quick fix for me in the world of the afl draft would be something like trading first round picks for established players to kick start the club for a while, or a draft penalty forced quick fix that we had no real option to try at the end of 2003 with our foreign legion of recycled players.

Im all for a youth policy at Carlton, but with youth of the best possible football quality that we can find, using the current draft system to the maximum advantage possible.

I dont think we could get players of the calbre of Doull, Williams Silvagni etc - the elite players of our past - without getting them through the draft system.

Indeed it has been said that some of our famous players - such as John Nicholls would not have made the draft as it stands right now.
'
Im not a quick fixer really, just a realist about our current plight.

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My Blue Heaven

and you sound like a wino to me....

How were we smarter?
We used the system in place....

But can we still use that system today????

You dont even know what youre talking about do you???

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Shits me too Synbad.

It's a bastard when people let facts get in the way of a good argument

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Has Marc Murphy decided if he's going to play with Brisbane or nominate for the draft? And does the answer to this change anyone's views about winning/losing against the Hawks?

'Those would only be facts that supported an argument for this this year if those guys were the players in the draft this year and we were the Lions and thats how those guys played out their time with us.

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oh Synbad be a seer please, that's fun; its just when you sneer you lose the plot.

So now its an absolute

we are shot

if we do not come last
past is past
now is now
the hour has come to stand tall
so do the hard yards
and place all our hope on 1 player.

Gee yep, you know your shit Synbad. Wish you were running the club, we'd be laughing then.

Actually the argument goes that Synbad was never a real sailor, he was a drugged out opiate head who lay in a den somewhere dreaming of mythical beasts .

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

But just in case it doesn't work, well there's always next year's draft ... that's supposed to be a ripper ... and I need another hit, can you fix me up Mr Draft Man.

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dannyboy, when youre last.. youre wounded and youre coming from a long way back you need ALL the advantages you can get...When our supporters think "its just going to happen"... or if the club believed "its just going to happen for us cos thats what used to happen"... i believe we are on the wrong tram.
Sure Marc Murphy wont be the ONLY difference... but hes a step in the right direction.
We need alot of Marc Murphys... alot will have to go right.
But you cant be serious when some people think we can dismiss the best talent in the country along with the best talent that will be uncontracted and say "We dont need them - we can do without them"

.. Thats sheeer arrogance and not understanding where the club is at right now.
The first step for a recovering alcoholic is to understand that he is an alco and needs help.
If he doesnt believe he is an alcoholic and does not take the painful steps of seeing a councilor and booking himself into a fracility he wont get cured.

You just have to face where were at... and we need to get every possible advantage.

I said were the new Fitzroy (on field) a couple of weeks ago...
Some people scoffed....!!!
Again some people dont know where we are at!!!
Or dont want to see it...

No i am not an alcoholic.. no i do not gamble.....

Thats what everyone in denial would say...


its becoming worse isnt it?

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camelboy, i know we dont need the draft.. its just not important.
we can use the Bendigo zone , buy players from other clubs or the form four.....
Are you impatient???

Well if youre impatient .. the way you think the club is going to turn around you better have the patience of the Grampians... cos youre not going anywhere.

Of course theres next years draft too...

Do you think we will be playing finals footy next year???

Get this into your heads... 3 to 5 years!!!!

But it starts now...

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I think it's just different degrees of acceptance of rebuilding via the draft that people are talking about. I don't really think there would be any person who would not acknoweldge the draft as the best way to recruit talent etc etc. However it is the ferocity with which some feel we need to come last that I find amazing. I just cannnot believe our pride has been stripped away so quickly.

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get into him CB - god knows im sick of arguing with him

the sooner they get rid of the priority pick the better it will be for the competition.

the only reason you should be able to get a priority pick is if over a 3 year span you dont win more than 15 games - then and only then should you get a priority unlike the joke of a system we find our selves in at the moment.

being rewarded for losing is the biggest flower joke known to man

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod