To me, the BIG difference between the Hawks and Carlton comes down to 2 things. Ruthlessness and Gameplan

The Hawks as a whole, both in the Management department and as a playing group, are simply more ruthless than what Carlton are. This has been seen in both their playing management and their "unsociable" style of play on the field. Perfect example is Jordan Russel. There is no way that he would have played 21 games and offered a new contract if he was playing for the Hawks, even through their rebuilding period. Carlton, to some extent, puts too high a price on their players, thinking they are better than they are and persisting with them when they know they should move on. Hawks made the hard decisions when they were building their list, trading star players for picks so the group could mature as a team, which is something I think Carlton does not have in them to do. Sure the salary cap debacle has made it impossible to build a team in the past, but this draft season will be telling for the team IMHO. I have made a topic in the past about trading SOME (not all) of our "older" guys for draft picks to get some more young blood into the team to set us up going forward into the "GC and WS" era. Players such as Carazzo, Russel, Fisher, Houlihan, Scotland, Simpson, Stevens and Thornton, all of which have trade value now and will eventually have thier spots taken by our developing kids. I AM NOT saying to delist or trade them for anything another club would give us for them, but if say Hawthorn offers up #16 for Thornton and a swap of later picks (eg rd 3 picks) then I say take it. An extra 2-3 early picks in this season could make a HUGE difference to our side competing for premierships from 2011 onwards !!!!!!!!!!!


I doubt that many people would argue that Harwthorn had the more skillful side out there yesterday. They seemed to get slammed through the midfield and had less inside 50s and shots on goal than Geelong. The difference was that the Hawks had the superior game plan. To me, the Hawks most valuable player yesterday was Clarkson. His cluster is superb for the Hawks (I personally hate it, but hey, it works) and the teams pressure in the midfield and their rebound out of defense was awesome. They are an extremely well drilled machine, with each of thier players KNOWING EXACTLY what their role is. This is what is lacking at Carlton. God we cant even move the ball out of defense after a kick in effectively, let alone develop a game plan to break the cluster or develop something of our own.

Put simply, we are at least two years behind Hawthorn- and footy changes so quickly! who's to say that with the same list we have at Carlton, we will not snatch a flag in 2010?

They well and truly now one of the big four in Melbourne

Fantastic management, business plan and vision will catapult the Hawks into the powerhouse club category in Victoria.

The Hawks will announce a profit of 4 million + in season 2008

The Tassie alliance is probably one of the smartest moves from a club and have done it well on the back of knowing they are heading into an era of success.

Next year 45k + members

Over 1,000,000 people attended Hawks games this year

Reportedly up 9-10 friday night games and the 3 games in tassie replayed on free to air on sunday night

One of the best training facilities at Waverly that costs $1 a year to lease

And now premiers.

Thats an awesome achievement for a club 12 years was going to merge with a basket case of a club like Melbourne

well done.

Great Post Coryne!

I agree, the big thing for me with the Hawks is they made the hard, tough and unpopular decisions on Hay, Rawlings, Thompson etc to get draft picks and then develop from within. This is what we have to do. We have a great developing core of players with Murphy, Gibbs, Kruezer, Jamison, Bower, Browne, Grigg, Armfield etc.

Others such as Houlihan, Stevens, Scotland, Fisher, Russell, Cloke, Thornton, Carrazzo, Hartlett should all be put on table next week.

If we can somehow get Warnock for pick 24 then trade some of our players for an extra 2nd round pick (maybe a 1st round but hard to imagine) or two and an extra one or two third round picks it will be worth it. We will not have this opportunity for a few more years.

It is a good draft this year and we could easily get 4-5 really good players out of it!

Why would we trade Simpson when their hard running and quick left footer hurt Geelong with his pace and long kicks before he went off injured?

I could see Simpson hurting sides on a fast track like yesterday's with his hard running and long kicks.

Young is no hard nut, but an outside player and a receiver.

If you think back to the first year or two of Clarkson's coaching, the Hawks were roundly criticised for their game plan when they didn't have the skill, the hard bodies and experience to pull it off.

Clarkson could now write his own ticket at Hawthorn if he was out of contract.

Lets not knife Ratten in his first full year when our side is developing like the young Hawks of 2006.

Rawlings went in the Pre Season draft (unless you mean the Veale deal)

Hawthorn were lucky that North Melbourne were around to offer not 1 but 2 first round draft picks for both Hay and Thompson so I am sure if any club was to offer that for some of our ageing players I am sure CFC would jump at it.

Patience is a virtue. Both clubs yesterday have had the balls to stick with a plan and a coach despite going through rough times. Thompson was very nearly gone at the end of 06. Clarkson had Hawthorn finishing 14th and 11th in his first 2 years and doubts over a new contract.

..and yet the Cats have won something like 46 from 49 games.

The Cats kicked poorly on the day. That's it.
Superior game plans dont see you flogged in the middle and flogged for inside 50s.
The Hawks were lucky the game wasn't over at half time.

One match doesnt make a "more skillful" side.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Um I was implying that GEELONG had the more skilful side, but the Hawk's game plan and pressure meant that their effectiveness was dramatically decreased. Same thing happened with the Collingwood upset of Geelong, A LOT of pressure meant that Geelong effectiveness and flow was disrupted and the Pies won.

Yet you can never really judge a team's skill properly until they're put under the hammer. This rarely happens to Geelong but when it did happen (Pies and Dawks) they were shown to be suspect both physically and mentally under real pressure. The one that really stood out to me was Steve Johnson. Rarely hit a target all day and can't kick over 30 metres. Exposed. another was Tom Lonergan. just not up to it. Ditto Mark Blake. No wonder King got back in the side last year. Add Tom Harley to the equation. Was getting pantsed by Cambell Brown before Brown went down back. Sure he's good at zoning off the 6th best forward but was exposed as being little more than that. Harry Taylor? Rhys Shaw nuff said. Stokes? Plays well when the team does but rarely stands up otherwise. People want to bag Varcoe but at least he had a crack, things just didn't go his way.

Hawks were lucky the game wasn't over at half time? Yet they beat a supposed more skillfull side easily in the end. Something doesn't add up. Perhaps the Dawks are just a better team.



And yet it means @#$%&! all without the premiership cup on the mantlepiece.

Not sure that Hawthorn are more skilful
Geelong played its worse game for about 20 weeks - Mooney missed from the goal square - missed from 30 meteres out in the third - bartel worse game for some while
Ottens missed an open goal from 20
yet geelong still got enough possessions out of middle and in forward 50 to win

Geelong looked like Carlton coughing up the ball at hff -more in this game than the last 6 they have played

After one game where Geelong kicked themselves out of the game, we're supposed to follow the Hawthorn model and talk down the Cats model that won them a flag last year and 21 games this year.

Apparently

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

Agree...Geelong couldnt do much right......eg Harry Taylor fell over his own feet and allowed an easy goal.
The Geelong forward plan is built around being unselfish and they take pride in their assists however under pressure they reverted to being selfish and forgot about team basics.

Their midfield did fine IMHO....they cut Mitchell and Lewis out, but their one achillies heel in pace probably got exposed with the likes of Bateman, Rioli etc breaking the lines and setting up others.

Varcoe was a passenger and Thompson must have been wishing he had Wojinski on the park to help even up in the pace dept.....Varcoes tackling was pathetic and he wont be on their list very long.

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

So you guys are choosing to ignore the clanger count (ignorance is bliss).

If you look up knee jerk reaction in the Oxford, I suspect there be a picture of Coryne.

Where do you think both the Hawks and the Cats were 3 years ago? Do you think they just went 'poof' and their whole team list, game plan and management materialised out of thin air. Give me a break.

The Hawks are 4 years into what they thought would be a 6 year plan. The Cats were 6 years in to their plan when they won in 07. Do you think the Hawks were moving the ball around in 2005 the way they move it in 2008?

Ratten has been in the chair 5 mins. When Clarkson had been in the chair 10 mins they were calling for his head. Bomber Thompson was as good as out the door midway through 2006. Get some perspective for goodness sake.

As BV said ....46 wins from 49 games........is truly amazing and in yesterdays game they had it won if they kicked straight. To say the Hawks had the superior game plan is just plain silly. Poor conversion and 1 man stood between Geelong and victory and that was Luke Hodge.

You have no idea who CFC may throw up during trade week and yet you say you don't think Carlton has it in them. It is one thing to put them up but if no-one bites then what is your suggestion then?

Get back to me in another 3 years.

Regards Cazzesman

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Cats: 62 inside 50's (for only 11 goals)
Hawks: 43 inside 50's

The game should have been over at half time but the Cats blew it and left the door ajar.......and the Hawks took their chances. Simple!

Hawthorn have a very strong list but lets not forget that Geelong have been the best side for the last 2 years.

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There is no footy god

I compare Carlton to the Hawks over Geelong simply because WE WONT GET A GARRY ABLETT JR, MATHEW SCARLET, TOM HAWKINS ETC VIA THE FATHER/SON RULE. We must build our side using our the draft, much the same as what the Hawks did.

I think it was more of stupidity on the part of Laidley/the Kangaroos than sound list management from the Hawks.

As soon as the trades went through for both Thompson & Hay everyone knew that the Kangaroos gave up too much and the Hawks did very well.
I'd happily get rid of some of our "middle aged" B-C graders for a first round pick but somehow I doubt this would happen.......unless Laidley is given a free reign by the Kangaroos.

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There is no footy god

Also did well out of Freo(Croad),Sydney (Everitt).Don`t think we will see that scale of trading for picks again.