I uderstand you. I've always preferred him as a forward than a ruckman.

Do you remember the best moments Ackland gave this club? It was in the NAB and he kicked 2 goals from two Big marks in the forwardline; he also missed out on taking a screamer. That sceamed out forward to me.

He did fly for some more marks in the forwardline but they didn't come off. What were the most memorable acts he performed for this club in the ruck? mmmm...yeah you see, I do understand your point.

But since that cameo, he has really not delivered a shot, even when drifting to the forwardline. My guess was that he was at his peak when he first arrived and has gone downhill since then.

Then all of the sudden these bags have been popping up. WTF? I don't know what to say other than he gave his opponents (VFL players) a bath.

My point (made in another thread) for Aisake is a case for oportunity more than anything else, and how the offer of opportunity has unearthed some gems for the Mighty Blues, despite their form in the Ants not warranting selection at the time. There's a long list of players who showed as much as Aisake has and been selected; precedence.

Right now we are screaming for an Aisake type player, not necassrily Aisake, but we have no other option against resting ruckmen. I also made the point that I would like to see us make the finals this year, and the reason we have lost many of our games is against resting ruckmen and ruckmen in general.

So laugh as much as you like, and belittle Aisake as much as well, but when (as it seems) he has not been developed in 2009, he played well last weekend, we have no one else on our list to manup resting ruckmen in our defensive area, then who are you going to recall to man Westoff and Brogan?

And as you put it



That's exactly what I'm saying, so don't laugh.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

If you are interested in circus sideshows then sure, bring Ackland in.
This is a football club, not a circus

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T E A M

Sydney, Sydney, Sydney.

Lets focus on the last game, not the past anecdotes from some reports you read.

There is more to the story than your opinion from reports you have read; believe me.

The issue runs deeper than your suggestion. There are also question marks on our ability to develop what we have on our list which a more pertinent to the root of the problem with many of our players; perhaps even with Ackland (but I don't hold that view).

The point is as stated before, Aisake did well on the weekend in the Ants, and I didn't just get that from this forum either (which you may have), in fact from what I was told by several people I trust and who follow the list with keen eyes (they have time, money, footy nous and passion to enable them to do so) was that he looked like he belonged, and was definetely the x factor on field and against Jeff White.

203 cm rucking and running and linking and yelling...he was definetely putting in as if someone had told him we're here to have a good look at what you've got till the end of the season. The only problem was that he only had 10 minutes per Q to prove his value. Read Lappin's comment in the website; it's obvious you haven't.

So take you bias hat off...it's obvious you can't see any upside in Aisake or Setanta...and tell me who you would have played against Moran and Maric last week...FROM OUR LISTED PLAYERS...and who you would select to play on BROGAN and WESTOFF this weekend coming?

Before you answer that, it is important to know if you are interested for the remainder of the year we play to get into the finals, to try out as many players considered for delisting or do we development; it's relevant.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Thanks WP; that's all we've been asking for for nearly 2 years now.

There was good reason to elevate him last year; Pagan in fact took too long to do it. and did so when he was struck down with OP. So we never got the opportunity to see him strut his stuff. His form warranted selection, whilst others whose form hasn't warranted selection have been given a go or ample opportunity; something imbalanced there.

So what is Ratts doing with him now? Better thab Pagan? This is my big criticism of the current MC and dvelpment coaches.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Fevola and Kreuzer...there's a start....next?

Fevola and Thornton...there's another go...what are your thoughts CC?

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Play Ackland this week.

Who did he kick the 7 against.... Sandy with half their team playing in the seniors. Good luck to him on another team next year.
He aint a forward in the AFL and he is not a great ruckman. Jacobs, Hampson would be a far better investment

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Chris Judd: 'I've since watched some Steven Seagal movies and realise pressure points are no laughing matter.'

Whilst I don't think 2 bags of goals at a lower level equates to form, I don't think that's the issue for a 26 year old player. The lower levels for a team like us are for development so form of the kids is what's important.

What's more important is the question 'Can Player X make the difference in a game at AFL level?'. You are suggesting playing a player who hasn't made a positive difference to us in 21 games, cannot play in the position we recruited him for but in a position that we already have one of the games best in? Our key weakness going forward is the second and third forward and the mix & match nature of Wiggins, Edwards, Fisher and hartlett from say 30 metres out to the wing. In my view Fisher and Wiggins are doing the best they can and the other two are a work-in-progress. I can't see Ackland take any of those positions or provide a target at half forward because of his slow pace and low ability. Further against a sweping running defence like Port I think he would be an extreme liability; yet another forward (if played there) who can't tackle.

I dont think Cain Ackland can make a difference at AFL level and would be extremely disappointed if he got a game.

Fisher have been criticised a lot this year but people forget that some players are No3 forward players so when they play in a team short of good forwards will struggle as they cop a stronger No 2 back men on them so they struggle, now at Carlton if say we bring Ackland in and he score a goal or two early then he will draw the No 2 back man on him even so he may not kick many goals afterwards he will ease the pressure off the likes of Fevola and Fisher will suddenly will attract a No3 or even No4 back man on him instead and all of a sudden you might see a big improvement of him, can you imagine how easier it will become for Fevola all of a sudden

You take Buddy of Hawthorn for instance how good he looks, mind you I’m not saying he is not, but with all the other top players around him it must makes it a breeze for him, now bring him in a Carlton side, as it is at the moment and will see if he performs anywhere near as good as Fevola, you see my drift.

The trouble with us supporters is that we seems to have this romantic feeling with certain players and we bury our heads in the sun to everything else and we always like to see all our young players in the side never mind the team evenness, then after the team looses day in day and day out we come onboard and criticise the players and everyone else and then the following year the same scenario starts again and the sad thing is that all the players that been tried too early and failed to come up then they get branded as shit players and no matter what they do after that, they are always shit as far as some of us are concerned.

I am not sure what to think about Ackland.

The facts are:

1. He has been performing as well as anyone in the Ants over the past month.
2. He has not had a chance to play FF at AFL level.
3. We struggle to kick enough goals, have enough options and take advantage of a dominant midfield.
4. Our current structure isn't working.
5. Has been played as a ruckman but is to small.
6. Before culling players at years end they should be given evry opportunity to prove themselves.
7. Hartlett & Edwards have not stood up at all when given a chance.
8. Another genuine tall option would take pressure off Fev and stretch opposition defences.
9. Huge ask for Kruezer to keep playing ruck and forward with little rest.

With these maybe we should atleast give him a go. What have we got to lose?

Have Ackland in the square and Fev leading out of a pocket and having some time on a HFF. Especially at the TD have Thornton as a mobile CHF with Betts and Murph/Gibbs as crumbers. Waite and Walker also pushing forward.

We have a developing defence, a fantastic midfield. It is our forward line that needs a lot of work. We have lost to Adelaide & Sydney because we didn't take advantage of our opportunities.

Wow, i was thinking the same thing.

The point of the reserves is to gain form and constantly perform well. He has done so several times in a position where we definitely need an answer.

Sure, as a ruckman, he stinks, but if he can mark and kick goals, i say lets try him.

Atleast if he marks the ball in the forward 50, he won't handball all that much

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cruise (Kreuze) missile:
a very accurate flying bomb.
SOURCE: http://library.thinkquest.org/3785/glossary.html

Waste of time.

Bring in a kid.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

So let me get this right, we move Fev out of FF so Ackland can play there because he can't play anywhere else.

Or we play him at CHF not because he has shown anything there but because we need a CHF

or we play him in the ruck (where we know exactly what he can do - SFA)
so someone else can play CHF

we have a FF - and it ain't Ackland.
We need a ruck - and it ain't Acland
I further propose Ackland is not a CHF - he lacks mobility, agility and the ability to back into packs.


But what he does proivde - at least until the bubble is popped, is a dream, the dream he is this strapping KPP ready to come in and kick a bag of goals.

Of all the players to plonk a dreambet down on, I'd say Ackland may just about be the worst.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I'd hate to say it, but I agree with Danny.

We've seen what Ackland can do, and it's not much.

Bring in an Aisake or a Jacobs - who knows what might happen?

I'd hoped the Brisbane game was the last I'd ever have to see Ackland in Navy Blue.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

It's part of being a supporter to desperately want your players to succeed. Everyone has their favorites, and it's why conversations about who to delist bring such argument. I think we need to get rid of 6-8 players this year but picking them is hard because I want Jackson to play seniors like he did against Harvey, I liked Blackwell's game against Brisbane, Edwards and Hartlett have shown things in (small) patches. Then there's Wiggins, Russell and Bannister. But surely one thing everyone agrees on is that at the head of the delist list is Cain Ackland. I have never seen such pathetic efforts from anyone wearing my beloved Navy Blue jumper as I have from him. He doesn't deserve if he kicks 15 in the Ants next week. Drop him to the 3rds, play Aisake and Jacobs and lets try to forget he was ever here.

Well, it does look like Ratten has already sealed his future. He is not even bothering to look at him anymore, and his name has not been mentioned apart from here, so perhaps Ratts believes it’s irrelevant now how ackland plays out the year. He is out

Read that out loud using the available punctuation and play fair!

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Kicking goals on VFL hackers from the suburbs is a bit easier than kicking them on the better defenders in the AFL.
I'd rather play Hartlett and confirm if he will make the grade...I know Ackland wont....

He is a lazy player with an ordinary attitude who has done sweet F.A. over the journey to prove otherwise.
Last time I watched him play he couldnt even be bothered standing the mark as an opposition player lined up for goal....he will provide zero defensive pressure...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Your reasoning is not entirely correct. We've seen what Ackland can do whilst playing as a ruckman. In this position, he obviously struggled.

BUT we haven't seen what he can do for Carlton as a forward. His form as a forward in the VFL suggests that he can actually kick a goal. He might or might not be a useful forward at AFL level, the point is that we just don't know. We don't really have anything to lose out of giving him his (deserved) chance.



That might be true but these "VFL hackers" are the same opponents who for some reason don't have goals kicked on them by Edwards and Hartlett. His attitude has appeared to be poor previously but I would argue that he deserves credit for going back to the VFL and finding some form in a different position, which in turn might just have improved his attitude. He probably knew that he was struggling as a ruckman for Carlton and this affected his self-confidence and his frustration materialised in a poor attitude.

He's on our list, let's give him what might just be one last chance, who knows what will happen?

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Oh for God's sake stop this rot and give Hartlett game time.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...