i have a concern over this and while i think rattern is doing a great job as our coach...

I just hope Carlton doesnt do to Rattern as Port adelaide did to cahill

as when cahill started in 97 with Port power he was the one to develop that team and was only in the job 2 years before choco took over that club and choco had instant success by getting them basically into the finals (not grand final)

and i believe in my own thoughts that it was cahill that developed there lot in the first couple of years to get them where they were in 99... i think by memory they finish 7th


if ratterns contract isnt renewed and say the new coach comes in and gets us straight into the finals in 2010 for the first for alot of years ... was it the new coach or the old coach in rattern that developed the lads...

if rattern did a 5 years and did nothing then yeah i see the need to get rid of him

i just dont want to see rattern to be the one that misdsus out on the credit if he missus out coaching 2010 and giving instant success for the new coach

cheers
OZ

Oz, that logic could apply to Denis Pagan too.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

I agree DUC my logic could have applied to pagen... pagan had his chance to get them moving to the top...

Ratten has been good so far and has done well for a 1st year senior coach and i hope he gets the accolades of what he has put in to coaching so far...

yeah but pagan didn't develop, he just recycled.
He wasn't capable of building a team from the bottom up, he's a coach that you would use when you already have a solid top 8 side.

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Blues Forever!

I think the list is as long as your arm, DUC. Walls suffered the pain and Matthews got the chocolates.

Pioneers never get the credit for their work, yet they're the ones who suffer the hard times.

I think Ratts is in the box seat for taking us through a successful period. If he's sacked before we get to a flag it'll be becasue he's not up to the job. He's learning as he goes but he won't have forever.

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Hey ozdevil ... its not Rattern .. its RATTEN!!!

you knew who i ment

Hey Duke, maybe you could drop that quote into Denis' new website - http://www.teamsattheirbest.com/

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Ok my point is this... i dont want an over possesion style of game... i dont want a long bomb style of game... are assuming the world is either black or its white with no shades of grey in between.

We are fortunate enough to have some unbelievable talent on ur books... THANKS TO BEING LAST for a few years.. thats the system,.and those that have been reading my posts for a long time know .. ive been talking about THE SYSTEM and how it helps the mediocre in the comp...

Now having Walker Murphy Gibbs Kreuzer and then Judd on your list.... is sumblime talent....and along with them you find other diamonds along the way to go with them.... Jameson is an example.... BUT.. if youre at the bottom for a prolonged period... by sheer weight of opportunity youre going to get some very very elite fotballers on your list...(add the best forweard in the land with those lot)

Now the question is not should we have a coach who believes you BOMB the ball forward or chip it around... but how do you MOULD all those elite footballers... and everything else you have on your list to your ABSOLUTE advatage....

Pagan had us playing crash and bask long kicking which didnt suit us....
Ratts had us chipping the ball around half back playing through guys liek TBird Carrazzo Scotland etc that go sideways allowing opposition sides to cluster back against the one forward we have been playing to????
We need to run the ball through the midfield quicker and find Fevola quicker to give him the opportunity to kick goals.. instead of fighting 3 bokes to get that opportunity....
Also.... to give him an even better chance to get the opposition runners to "stick around buddy and enjoy a show"... we have to stretch defences....

Fev went berserk in 40 minutes of football because another couple of targets were provided ... (Wiggo Kreuzer) and this gave him room to put on the Fevola show which we were all treated to in the last 40 minutes of that game...

Thats playing the game at OUR TERMS....
I think we have lost games cos Ratts played the game to the oppositions terms a few times this year....

You have to ustilise a game plan to what you have on your list...not just a gameplan for the sake of it....

Those that read my posts would understand thats what ive been saying... and ill criticise Ratts for not developing the gameplan on our terms and with our cattle...

When he did play it on our terms we won...

Now thats not going to work every time....

BUT... either is doing the same thing week in week out unsuccesfully... you MUST mix things up... but be on the front foot...!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Ok, thats a reasonable response and I agree with most of your post, I believe that we have played a chip game to our detriment on occassions, but not that often.

Sometimes it has been warranted but hasnt worked because of skill lapses etc. but there is a place for taking the football out of the oppostions hands for a while.

Momentum cannot be maintained for the entire game and certainly not when it is played at the full on speed of today's game (I was amazed at how quick the game against the dogs was, it was flat out). So therefore a change in momentum (mix it up as you call it) is ok.

We are still a very young (in age, experience and playing together) team and game plans (coaches methodology and instructions) take time to develop and learn, and I believe that definite progress has been made, thanks to Ratts, the other coaches, the support/fitness staff and of course some very talented footballers (as well as some not so talented ).

To have a successful game plan most players have to be in sync and follow the instructions pretty accurately, otherwise it falls down. I agree that we have some of the most ooutstanding talent and up and coming superstars, but we are still developing the rest of the list.

In order for the game plan to work more than just the top 10-12 players have to play a role and this is where we are currently breaking down. We will get there as ALL players improve or move out of the list, and as the team plays more games together, and as individuals gain more confidence in themselves, their teammates, and the coaches instructions etc..

One of the pleasing things to hear in recent weeks from Griggs, Stevens etc. is the shared and increasing belief that the players have in the game plan and in their ability to sustain their efforts over the 4 quarters, which is such a huge improvement from where we were even 6 months ago.

Like I have said before it is not all due to Ratts, but I certainly think he deserves some credit.

Go Blues

I must admit, I thought your link was a piss-take. I clicked just to see what would happen and bugger me dead....

How about the testimonials

"Denis Pagan had a massive influence on my career. He taught me discipline and what was required to become a professional in football and in life. His work ethic, positive attitude, and ability to communicate with everyone describe him best. It was a privilege to be coached by him and I will be forever indebted to him."

Brendan Fevola
Carlton FC Full-Forward
2006 Coleman Medallist

Who thinks Fev may just have jumped the gun a little on the discipline thing?

@#$%&! me!!

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I would never have a lend of you Duke.

Pagan would, but not me.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Always be wary of anyone whose business relies heavily on testimonials.

It might be just me.. but the chipping around has cost us and doesnt suit us because we are doing hilst having a SINGLE avenue to goal. when 65.243967% of your forward entries go via Fevola (number 1 forward in the league.) but you also take your timer taking the ball up to him... (flooded) and youre not setting yup with more oprions in the oppositions minds)... youre gunna fail!!!.. it wont work.....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Fair enough Synners,

I think the chipping around did have a point at the start though. We had a team of kids who didn't know how to win, and had no confidence. Chipping around gave them confidence because they were getting their hands on the footy. We will and are developing away from it. Some weeks we do it well (like last weekend), and sometimes we slip into old habits (like against Geelong). But the good weeks are becoming more regular.

The question may actually end up being... can we fully develop away from chipping around when we still play guys like Scotland or Carrazzo? Or will the kids have to come through like Browne and Armfield before we can move away from it altogether? Trying to reprogram footballers in their mid to late 20's is tough. Hell... Hawthorn even admitted the other day they can't reprogram Buddy to actually kick the ball.

You need to dig a little deeper into Denis' site. In addition to Fev's testimonial:

"Denis Pagan had a massive influence on my career. He taught me discipline and what was required to become a professional in football and in life. His work ethic, positive attitude, and ability to communicate with everyone describe him best. It was a privilege to be coached by him and I will be forever indebted to him."

Brendan Fevola
Carlton FC Full-Forward
2006 Coleman Medallist


You also find the following:


"Denis and I developed such strong teamwork and understanding of each other's position, we didn't even need to speak to each other. Ever."

Barry Mitchell
Ex Assistant Coach
Carlton FC


There are others I'm sure.

My only concern with Ratts so far is team selection and our forward structure.

This time next year will be a lot clearer in terms of who might be our next premiership coach.