BV, I actually reckon that coaches are over rated and under rated. In other words, their impact on a team's success, or lack of it is over inflated.

I like Ratts, he's a blue through and through. I love his passion and his drive, but I reckon he's probably responsible for 5% of our improvement.

Judd is probably 50% reason for the sides performance and the rest to Gibbs, Murphy, Jammo etc etc.

You simply cannot sustain success for a long period without top line players. You can get them uip for big games and for brief winning streaks, but not for long stretches.

Ratts is learning on the job and will have a handle on it by the time all the boys peak. By then he'll be considered one of the best coaches of the modern era (3 flags) and good luck to him.

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end of message

Waite has definately improved, as has bower, grigg, jamison, russel, betts and a couple more that I may have missed.

But more importantly, the structure has improved, the rotations have improved, players have been given more responsability and responded to that and young players have not been dragged when they make a mistake. That BTW is why our young players have improved so much this year and are playing like a team.

I was expecting/hoping for around 8 wins this year, so seeing that we have achieved that target I will give Ratts a pass. If we make finals (which I don't think we will) then I think that would be an outstanding achievement by Ratts and the boys.

Not everyone grows at the same rate Sailor Man.

With the above you mentioned, it is more about consistency and stringing wins together.

BUT it also about what role they are given in a particular game, that you might not be privy to and to all and sundry might seem on the ordinary side in terms of performance, is judged to be a job well done by the MC.

I think Ratts would probably rate his season thus far as being okay without being too flashy.

I would give him a C+ and depending on how the next few games go, that could increase to B+.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Have been a long time reader of Synbad's thoughts and certainly respect his opinion and nouse but i totally disagree with your thoughts here.

To think that such improvement (Gibbs, Murphy, etc) just comes naturally is rubbish EVEN if they are elite talents. Ratten is extracting the most out of the list whilst also developing it very well IMO.

Waite has improved significantly and even if he is still inconsistent he is getting more consistent.

What about our improvement in the back 6? Jamison, super player of the future who without Ratten might not be on the list.

Griggs development? Bower pre-injury? Fevola having one of his best years despite indescretions.

The names you mention- Waite i thought has been the barometre, Stevens seems unfit/ interrupted pre-season (Rattens fault? Interesting point), Fisher has lost his self belief and Carrazzo will always be an accumulater.

We have improved significantly as the season has progressed when the same couldnt be said for previous years when we may have been 2 wins from 3 then lost for the majority of the remainder finishing with something like 5 wins from 22.

He gives the kids confidence and backs them 100% and whilst we do butcher the footy at times we will continue to improve in our structure as was seen in the second half on Sunday.

Synners,

I think you have become Denis Pagan! You don't want a possession game, and you want to kick it long to Fev. For years you rubbished Pagan because he said he wanted more elite talent and more games in the legs of the youngsters. Now you say these are the only reasons for our success.

You can't rubbish Pagan for several years for wanting elite talent and games in the legs of the youngsters and then rubbish the next bloke because he has got elite talent and games in the legs of the youngsters. You have no consistency of argument from day to day, or week to week, and certainly none from season to season.

Either your argument against Pagan was wrong, or your argument against Ratten is wrong. Work out which one it is and apologise to the other bloke.

can clarkson coac h or is it just the orangic growth of Franklin Roughhead et el?

And Bomber Thompson - or just the organic growth of his list?

and gardeners hey, can they garden, or is it just the organic growth of the seeds?

if fact does anyone do anything at all or is it all just organic growth - ahh there are no specialists, just those lucky enough to have the right seeds.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Bingo

Wise men and workers grow hand in hand grasshopper.
Seeds without water will not grow
Seeds without water and earth will not grow.

I think that there's a combination of expertise required for success in a team game; the player, the teachers/ guides and the nurturers (off field experts from Cordy to the boot studder).

The there's the supporters who will the players over the line.

Ratts has surrounded himself with quality people, and Pratt has made it happen. Did you hear the Carlton faithful cheer their team to victory on Sunday? Well they back the team, not just Ratts.

Ratts it seems is improving, but that can only measured by the team's peformance from a spectators vantage. There's more to it when rebuilding a young list, and if Ratts has given them belief, then this is the greatest virtue he can give a kid; confidence is between the ears.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I understand the sailor mans view now, if we win it's because we didn't play to Ratten's game plan or the players have naturally improved - if we lose it's all the game plans fault.

Under Pagan we would have got smashed in the second half on Sunday.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

You've got it kingkerna!

Ratts is on a no win under Synners... What I like about Synners is that he gave Pagan 4 years before he turned on him. It's almost like he's making up for lost time by knifing Ratten from the start. If he had have been onto Pagan earlier then his ability to evaluate coaches might hold more credence.

End of 2007:

Richmond 16th
Carlton 15th

Terry can't coach but Ratts can.

Ratts to me is a big improvement on what had preceded him. I would also rate him cplus to B. For me he needs to improve in these areas

a) ruck coaching

b) development of young talls

c) alternative forward to Fevola

d) tackling

I belive Ratten has certainly come in and started to put the belief back in the supporters / players that the Blues are on the rise.

At start of the Year 8 wins was to me considered a good result anything above is a bonus and a finals appearance would be a big positive to his full year of coaching.
If we tick off what Ratten has achieved since our most difficult past 6 years.
Won both Games interstate
Beaten some sides that we havnt beaten in a longtime - Freo / Westcoast
Still have some we need to beat they will come soon - Saints / Swans
Beaten a top 4 side which has only lost to Geelong this year.
Players have been adapting to a new Style of play which i am sure will pay dividends next year.
Havnt had consistant 10 Goal + Beltings we have had to endure over last 5-6 years.
Big Factor in Ratten for 2008 is bringing back the unity and belief and having the players who obvioulsy enjoy playing for him.
The players have all shown to be glowing in praise for Ratten. He also has been far more hands on with the list than with the Pagan error.
More importantly the players have a belief in 2008 that they can beat anyone on the day and improvement on a weekly basis i am sure the coach can take some credit in that.

When you hear the players speak they can give you an insight on the impact of Ratten and the assistants like Corsisca / Riley and Co.

Also as the players start to get settled we will continue to improve IE with a settled backline when players play with same players week in week out will only continue to bring on improvement even this year we have had some issues of getting a settled back 6 with injuries to Jamison, Thornton, Bower, Armfield ect

We all have to remember where we have come from in the last 6 years. where we where lucky to win 3-4 games for the year and where struggling to see when we would get our selves off the bottom of the ladder.
2008 has certainly shown light at the end of the long 6 years of pain.

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CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

July 26th 2008
Richmonds best 6 players on AFL.COM.
Average age of 28.33 including 4x30 year olds.

I'll take Ratts thanks but good luck with your Tigers.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

How do you want Ratts to coach Cloke to be 200cm or Hampson/Kreuzer to be 24 already?

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

I think Synbad you should just come out and say it already. You don't like Brett Ratten as coach, you never have liked him as coach and there is very little Ratten can do to change your mind about him because you are just too stubborn in your view that Ratten isn't the right man for Carlton. A simple reviewing of your posting history in relation to Brett Ratten as coach demonstrates this. We could win the premiership this season and you'd still find something for which to criticise the coach.

So you aren't a fan. Nothing wrong with that. I doubt you're alone. But you are very vocal. I think it's time you stopped beating around the bush and came out and said what you really thought of Ratten.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Scotland and Waite are definately better players this year, Fisher is playing a different role and is more value to the team than the 8 - 10 posession 1.5 goal one trick pony that he was for the last three seasons.
Simpson and Carrazzo's form certainly hasn't fallen away, and Stevens didn't need to improve.
Judd and Stevens would have made a difference to any team but there are some very encouraging sides regardless.
Ratten has done an excellent job so far.

The Tiggers average age is not too much different to what it was last year when they came last. You won't get any arguments out of me about who has a better long term list. My point is that at the start of the year I would have thought that by July 26th 2008 the Carlton Football Club would not be sitting 2 points behind the Richmond Football Club.
Ratt's biggest challenge at the moment is getting a forward line to function without a heavy reliance on Fev. At this stage I don't think we have made any real progress in this area as yet. In 80% of games this year we have ultimately relied on 1 player to finish of the work upfield and win us the game. Terry had the same issue with Richo and I think their reliance on him to win games has reduced significantly.
Terry can't coach but Ratts can

Ratts has done an excellent job this year. A few things he does confuse me but you cannot argue with his results and the way we now run out games and don't drop our bundle. That is as much mental as physical.

Next year will be his big test. Final year of his contract. One point I will make is that it is easier to go from 15th to 9th than it is from 9th to 1st!

I reckon he does like Ratten and is just trying the reverse moz.
After backing Denis to the hilt in his first years and then getting bitten i am sure Synbad is just playing it safe.