Isn't funny how the same posters who defended Pagan's tough stance on players like Beaumont and Mckernan a pretty quick to jump on the current coaching panel for spelling out a few home truths to the Irish Boys.

Hmmm ... that's interesting SB. You seem to be saying that you took the view that Pagan was well within his rights to make those decisions on those players and you backed them as you do those decisions of the Match Committee now. Well, that stands to reason, doesn't it? Because if you were a critic of those decisions and yet you now say that decisions on players shouldn't be criticised, that would make you an absolute hypocrite, wouldn't it?

Carlos out with calf muscle strain for all those conspiracy theorists (2-3 weeks)

Fantastic post Cazzesman. I think there's a lot of supporters who don't understand the big picture, and a lot of people tend to forget that we are not talking about abstract concepts when we talk about footy...we are talking about real (usually young) people's lives.

At the same time....it's probably worth adding here that it's very healthy for footy supporters to express their opinions in forums like this one. It's HOW that opinion is expressed that counts IMO...

Using myself as an example....while I support the MC & the players, I am entitled to have my own opinions about what is happening at the club I love. As long as I express those opinions in an appropriate way, there's no problem with me doing that on TC and I can't help how those opinions (about a decision or a player) might make someone else feel.

I'm not saying your post contradicts the above view necessarily, but it did move me to post that I think we need to get a balance between remembering that the club is being run by people who know far more about footy than most of us do (and that the players are young men trying their hardest to succeed), AND remembering that AFL footy is a big business and supporters are right to express an opinion...

Cheers.

P.S. I do have faith in Ratts, Swanny & co....for now!

ManSue..I think your post is more relevant to the discussion we all had regarding posting criticism of players and the manner in which we do that. (No i don't want to start that up again in this thread! )

I think CM's post is not about expressing opinions but more about how we have many posters on TC (and other sites) who can give us snippets of info, others who give us snippets they profess to be true (but aren't), and how many of us pick up these posts and run in a million directions scattering seeds of misinformation that gradually gets relayed through pages and pages to become "Fact".

Fantastic post Cazzesman. I think there's a lot of supporters who don't understand the big picture, and a lot of people tend to forget that we are not talking about abstract concepts when we talk about footy...we are talking about real (usually young) people's lives.

At the same time....it's probably worth adding here that it's very healthy for footy supporters to express their opinions in forums like this one. It's HOW that opinion is expressed that counts IMO...

Using myself as an example....while I support the MC & the players, I am entitled to have my own opinions about what is happening at the club I love. As long as I express those opinions in an appropriate way, there's no problem with me doing that on TC and I can't help how those opinions (about a decision or a player) might make someone else feel.

I'm not saying your post contradicts the above view necessarily, but it did move me to post that I think we need to get a balance between remembering that the club is being run by people who know far more about footy than most of us do (and that the players are young men trying their hardest to succeed), AND remembering that AFL footy is a big business and supporters are right to express an opinion...

Cheers.

P.S. I do have faith in Ratts, Swanny & co....for now!

I have next to no real insight into the inner sanctum i.e. behind the scenes, MC stuff because I am rarely there and neither WH or SR give out any info.

The situation is, I don't ask and they don't tell. Which means none of us can be the sneaky leakers

My only insight is having the occasional chat with some of the players and having the occasional player live with Caz and I for short periods. The chats and the living arrangements make you realise they are just kids who happen to be lucky enough to be on an AFL list. Outside of CFC they have all the normal issues of life to deal with.

They have to get over disappointments, injuries, breakups, homesickness and form slumps very quickly.

The season and their lively-hoods can quickly slip away if they have some bad luck and can't get their heads right. Situations happen over which they have no control. They might have had a slow start to the year then be out for a month with injury.

They come back through the VFL and play at Ballarat where it is near on snowing, blowing a gale and the Ants get belted. Then the week after they are at Frankston, where the player is played out of position and can't find a matchup so he spends 50% of the game on the bench. He has had 50 Minutes in 7 days to show his stuff. All of a sudden the pressures of life for a 20yr old start to mount.

Half the season is gone and they are struggling to show much. The supporters start to ask questions and the Internet footy site runs a poll about who is going to get cut at the end of the season. The kids parents see their sons name mentioned and more pressure builds.

Supporters talk to people in the Coterie groups, who talk to Board members who ask cryptic questions to those either in or on the edge of the MC. The snowball gathers plenty going down hill when someones says..."Is Fred up to it?'.

There's an amazing amount of pressure on some 20 year olds at AFL clubs. Most of it generated by the media and the supporters. The media want stories 24/7 and the supporters want instant gratification. That's were the distorted view comes from. Plus we have those people at the club who are feeding snippets of information to some of the posters on sites like TC. All snippets do is produce speculation and hysteria. The media get a sniff and we are off to the races.

You are not going to get all the information and nor should you because it is simply not possible. To try would cause more problems than it is worth. Put some trust in those running the club and if they fail to produce then move them on.

In the end if the MC want to pick a player, then the supporters have to respect that the MC have all the data to make an informed decision. The MC have to balance the short term goals i.e the win, with the long term goals of building Carlton's list for the future.

Ask 10 supporters to name CFC best 22 and you will get 10 different teams. No doubt those involved in the MC have a slightly different 22 they would like to see run onto the field but as a group they work through the why's and wherefores. They try to strike a happy medium between the short and long term goals of the Club and the player.

My insight is that you have 44 individuals who are trying their best to be good at something. Some by nature try extremely hard but don't always make it. That's just life. Let the MC decide who comes and goes and if the MC ultimate get it wrong then someone better will get the gig. Until then have some faith in Ratts, Swanny and Co. Remember we are coming from along way back.

Regards Cazzesman

Carlos out with calf muscle strain for all those conspiracy theorists (2-3 weeks)

With Setanta he was late to turn up for the Ant's game and I got the imp impression from the comments made by the club he needs to have very good six or seven weeks. This is sad because we need a big body backman.

the irish experiment has been a failure. sentanta just can't cut it at AFL level. its time for the ohailpins to be moved on.

Linchy, you eventually have to get over losing Greg Kazurofrom the club.

Somewhere between Kev and sticks the truth lies.

The club hasnt as such sat with him.

I really cannot wait for the right time and those who say he sooks, sipts the dummy, is childish and so on, well, both barrels are loaded.

Not so much though as you guys as ignorance, in the truest sense prevails here, you can only post with the facts or whatever is portrayed as facts, that are presented to you.

I do NOT know anything factual. I live 10,000 miles away. But if there are no issues between the MC and Setanta then I think Cazzesman would have freely said this.

I have next to no real insight into the inner sanctum i.e. behind the scenes, MC stuff because I am rarely there and neither WH or SR give out any info.