Fish leads to the forward pocket on a few occassions and is ignored [did it a couple of times on Sunday], which is probably why he gets into Fev's way, because he figures that's the only time he will get his hands on the ball in the F50.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

It boils down to the fact that we just don't have the skills to spread the goals around.
Murphy and Stevens are our only midfielders who consistently kick goals (Judd has been surprisingly quiet on this front but it will come back to him).
Waite can kick multiple goals, but not from the back half.
Fisher has played his career to date as a half forward and has a very ordinary strike rate.
Wiggins conversion is poor.
Russell's conversion is atrocious.
Kreuzer is 18 years old.
Bentick and Carazzo spray the ball all over the place.
Scotland and Simpson are 50/50 at best, so is Walker when he's fit.
We get few goals from our ruckmen.
Apart from Fevola and Betts we can't apply pressure and keep the ball in our forward half.
Given the limitations of our forward options we have no choice but to use Fevola the way we do.
Imagine if he WASN'T there, it doesn't bear thinking about.

You've got to put yourself in the midfielders shoes.

You kick it to Fev, you're a good chance of a mark and goal. And if he doesn't mark it he's brilliant with a loose ball.

You kick it to Fish, you're a good chance for a mark, not so good a chance for a goal. And if he doesn't mark it's an almost definite turnover as he's hopeless the minute the ball hits the ground.

Fish is an ok bit player - I think we rate him better than he really is.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Agree with that Deano but we have signed Fish for 2 years so we need to make better use of him than we have been.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Quite often our midfielders are with in range to have a ping but they still look to give it off to Fev. I would prefer them to have a go - if your on the run with in range blaze away - goals like that can often lift a team more so than the kicking it to the leading Fev then wait 1 minute while he sets up and wipes his arse before a shot . The running Waite goal was the team lifter against Port

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Fish has played all his career as a marking forward and kicked just over 100 goals in 82 games.
He's a one trick pony and other clubs have sorted him out.
He won't be costing us much and will still be handy as a back up from time to time but for now let's get Hartlett, Saddington or (gasp!) Ackland in and see if someone other than Fev or Betts can kick more than two goals a game.

Fisher is being forced to play as the second key marking target and attracting better players...he is a third forward option only....result minimal returns from Fisher. He is a good mark but wont be outmarking players like Ryder on a regular basis ...
Since losing Kennedy we have been unable to settle on a CHF.........Hampson has to play to allow Kruezer/Hartlet(when fit)/Cloke opportunities to either rotate through the position or one of them to own it...

Not playing Hampson vs Essendon* was a MC mistake.....it appears the MC and coaching staff did little homework on Hille and the Essendon* list in general......

Synbad is right....an unhealthy reliance on Fev and Judd is the game plan and Ratten needs to alter that if we are to progress.
Ratten is still in his first season so patience is required.
One issue I have with Ratten has been the use of Jake Edwards and Darren Pfieffer...Edwards is another target and should have been used more and Pfeiffer has done little wrong IMO and I cant understand why he cant get a game...

re: Judd.....champion player but his words to his WC teammates about carrying them on his shoulders might be applying to us soon if we dont
get some other players giving him a chop out. Nick Stevens needs to give us more and rather than taking photo opportunities with underworld figures he needs to start getting some clearances and taking some heat of Judd.

re: pace.....we lack some pacy express players with Judd at half rate power and I'm with others who would want Benjamin given a run when fit....some players dont perfom as twos players but excel when given senior games.
Browne didnt much in the twos to warrant a game IMO but has been successful and I think its time we showed some imagination with our selection policies and started thinking out of the square a bit more.

You can apply that logic to Aisake as well.........enough of the will he or wont he make it.....give him a game or two and lets see what he has got ,and make a decision on his future.

Ackland would be the last player I would be turning to solve any problems....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

I cant see Edwards doing fwd. Seems to lack intensity. Watch fisher when he takes a mark out on the flanks, He bolts back to take his kick. Edwards walks back with his back to play all lazy like.

I reckon edwards can mark equally as well as fisher and in times gone by would have been a great fwd but to me he doesnt seem nimble enough. Kicking also equal to fishers in unreliability. Both have nothing when it comes to keeping the ball inside fifty.

For a change i would load the fifty with medium sized mids who know how to get the ball, apply pressure and take a mark.
Gibbs, Scotland, wig and Simpson spring to mind. Murphy can rotate through there with judd. Fisher/Krooz and fev can remain the high marking/contesting forwards. Get everyone to move around quickly and make sure they keep the ball in there.

We lost last week because we didnt contest hard enough around the packs. No need for too many changes in personal just changes to what goes on above the sholders week to week. Games and maturity and good coaching should see that corrected in time.

Again with the Nick Stevens needs to give us more - Nick Stevens is currently 7th in the AFL for "clearances" with 67, 3 less than Judd (who is 3rd) on 70. So it would seem that in reference to clearances Nick already gives us plenty.

Maybe we can use Fish out of the goal square - lead in to no more than 30 metres in front and just off centre, and play fev as a chf type 30 to 60 out, a little bit like richo.

Fev will kick em, and fish should be able to pack mark with his stick hands and should get them from that close

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I will miss you Kouta - thanks for the memories. ps. Kouta > * for ∞

You're joking surely.
Move a champion full forward up the ground because one of your weaker forwards can't kick far enough.
Now seriously!

It also draws some of the defensive attention away from Fev. Whether it's other forwards or midfielders getting goals, it's good for the team. And therefore good for Fev. And therefore good for the team.

Good post Sydney. Murph should have had that shot when he could have run to 40m out in the 3rd, but tried to hit Fev with a pin-point pass (Gadget man fisted it away). I won't comment again on Murph's brain-fade handball to Fev in the same quarter.........

Running goals ARE teamlifters, and we get precious little of 'em. Simmo's goal in the last was certainly in that category, and we can only wonder what would've happened if Gibbs shot hadn't faded at the last moment.

Fish isn't in great form and it's always dangerous to try and sum up a players future worth to the team when he's currently playing below what he has in the past and what he will in the future. Things that wont change regardless of form are his inability to kick longer than 45m and his ability to outmark pretty much anyone in the comp. He'll find his form playing deeper than he is now, taking contested marks from the long balls which should be kicked over Fev's head.

I wonder who Ratts' outside advisors are? Brits? Parko??

Surely Ratts is getting the 'obvious' mail.

Actually no, the benefit of having a SECOND forward option introduces uncertainty in opposition. Fev will still get plenty, and additionally, if mid fielders go past Fev and Fish is not available, they will feel more comfortable taking a shot.

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I will miss you Kouta - thanks for the memories. ps. Kouta > * for ∞

Kreuzer floated into the forward 50 twice on his own (2nd quarter) when we were struggling to score. Ball came out after we tried to go to Fev.
We're doing the right thing, just need to start being more aware etc.
Shame of it was, both times Hille was the link man in the midfield (once with Scotland and once with Simmo trying to stop him).
Kreuzer would've felt like crap even though he did exactly the right thing.
I'm sure this was part of what he was told to do, didn't work, will get reviewed and will improve..

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“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee

I'm all for a second forward option, I just don't think a player who can only kick 40 metres at a pinch, is a shocking field kick, can't tackle or chase, is easy to knock off the ball and is hopeless below his knees is a good second option.
Fish may yet prove me wrong, but he's had five years and hasn't so far.

The answer is Edwards. My SC team depends on it.

I agree. See my post on pg 8 v Ric. Also, he is in my DT too