..i reckon 14 goals fer bettsy is a fair return, considering how we're using him i reckon it's pretty good actually for midway mark.. ..the problem though is we're using both our other forwards as lead up players, it's no wonder that fev carries the load..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Great thread. I believe an alternative to goal is essential. It is not entirely Fevs fault that we are one dimensional going forward. Another imposing option or two is required for us to be a truly good team. Fev is only human, he will always demand the ball and why not when he gets results by kicking goals.
But one must look occasionally at alternatives when you are developing a young team hence leaving out Hampson DID restrict our flexability to stretch the opposition.
As stated in one of the Monday papers, out of 32 forward 50 entries, we kicked to a leading Fev 23 times. The return being 7 goals, a further 8 goals from the other 9 entries. Mind you the same paper had that we went into our forward 50 in the stat sheet 55 times, but thats papers for you.
The point here is that we are very much Fev focussed. As good as Fev was Sunday it is much easier for the opposition to counteract a one dimensional attack. One incident on Sunday in the third Q when Adam Bentick ran inside the forward 50 with a clear shot on goal, he kicked to a leading Fev in the pocket who kicked a great goal . I bet young Gazza would not have hesitated in slotting it through given a similiar situation as Bentick should have, given he was in a better position to start with.Players should have the confidence to do so without being berated.
I recall the Geelong teams of the late 80's early 90's. They had a wonderful midfield, a Brownlow medalist among them. Four times losing Grand finalists with arguebly the greatest footballer of all time as their full forward in Garry Ablett Snr. So he should have been with the amount of ball directed at him but Geelong supporters suffered. They should have one at least one flag through that period but were denied due mainly to a one dimensional attack, even with Billy Brownless to assist him. Last year they finally got there without a recognised full forward. The question Geelong supporters should ask of the earlier period, is it better to have a glorified Idol or a champion team.
Maybe a conundrum?

ryan murphy from freo. he is out of contract and has alot of talent. i think he maybe 22 or 23 years old. great option i believe as we may offer freo a second round pick only. our first pick can be a tall forward also, who can ease into our team when he is ready to go.

Geelong were in the complete opposite position to us. They had Ablett who would kick 100+ goals a year. In 1991 Brownless kicked 81 goals and in 1992 he kicked 70 goals. In 1989 Exell managed a lazy 63 with 46 to Brownless and 42 to Scott. Bairstow and G Hocking both cracked 40 goals in 1991. The list goes on. Geelong of the early 90s had two dominant key forwards, blus Stoneham, and heaps of other goal scorers.

Also it was an era where there was no flooding or double teaming...
This era is harder for the forward....therefore you need options.

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People are generally happy when we have a win and obviously, as a general rule, are less critical under those circumstances. But to say that people are not raising concerns except for when we lose is just plain untrue (I appreciated that your comments are primarly directed at Synbad).

Plenty of people commented on the ridiculous of our forward set-up after the Port game, and queried why it took 3 quarters for Rats to do anything about it. And plenty of people were relieved that the Pies had no viable match-up for Fev given the MC showed no sign of materially changing the kick-it-to Fev approach the following week, despite having fallen over the line against Port.

It's dissapointing that we have this problem, it's so glaring the tabloids are devoting column space to it, we profess to recongise it's a problem, but there's no evidence that they're actually trying to adress it now. If they think they can simply address it over the off-season, then they're being woefully optimistic. It's going to take time to learn to diverify our F50 entries to target, and we should be trying to do this now.

As per my earlier post (page 6), there is no reason we can't be developing the side, making ourselves less Fev centric AND still trying to win and play finals all at the same time.

I think the MC deserves criticism for taking such a glacial and timid approach to this.

Fisher = forward pocket <30m out in front of goal AND DONT LEAVE THAT AREA. If we kick it long to him quickly when Fev is not an option, his contested marking skills will have the football world talking. I'm not a huge rap for Fish, but I've seen him take so many extraordinary contested marks and we may as well play to his only strength.

Carrots into the forward line = defensive pressure, goal assists and quite a few f#$ck ups (but at least it's not in our defensive 50)

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Last 20 premiership side's total goals, leading goal scorer's goals and their percentage of total goals.



Carlton 2008:
Total goals 184 (equals 353 in a 25 game year)
Fevola's goals 57
Fevola's percentage 31%

The premiership side hasn't had a key forward score over 30% since Dunstall in 1989.

Erm, how about some blocks for Murphy who gets pummelled because he's smaller and our second best mid?

Judd will get more blocks and shepherds when Hadley, Bannister and Walker return to the team.

Or Stevens pulls his finger out.

Everyone knows that Carlton Do not have any Options what so ever to help out Fev, Except for Moving Waite Forward, as he is the only player capable of kicking a Bag Outside of Fev.

I tell you what, this post is spot on.

I don't get to go to many games (this year I've only been to the Freo game and Ess on the weekend) but when I have this stands out like dogs balls!!!! And it's not just our delivery to Fev, it's our hospital passes to anyone on a lead. Anyone who saw that pass to Wiggo on Sunday (when Ryder sat on his head) could have seen that coming a mile away. I can't remember who kicked that but it was a shocker. And the amount of times we popped it up and Hille out-marked us was embarrassing. The Freo game was very similar.

For me it is only something that really stands out when I am at the games. You just can't see that stuff on TV.

One thing that I have always wondered is how well would Fev have gone if he was the key forward in a team with great skills like Geelong or the Weagles in their prime. He would have been near unstoppable.......

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"If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself" - Henry Ford

partly this is caused by Hartlett's hammies and it seems, a loss of faith in edwards, and partly to o with Fev himself.

Some instances come to mind.

Edwards learnt he must lead wide, the centre is Fev's .

Hartlet is an early game - sorry cannot remember which one, gave Fev a look when he was alone and then Fev ran to his space and took the grab (the look made me think Harts thought Fev 'stole' the mark). Not too worried about the look, only that I think it made Harts realize that Fev owned the forward line.

The times Fev has crashed into Fish.

The times a forward is alone and is ignored.

I think Pagan used Fev in a couple of games as a decoy. I think we should do it to. Designate certain games and play his up or wide and look to other
forwards. I think to begin with the team needs to learn in games to look elsewhere.

As Judd said, the loudest barking dog gets fed first (or something to that effect) and Fev barks loudest - who else but Fev would have a go at Judd for a poor kick?

This is the next big challenge for this club. We have gone a long way to improving the backline and the midfield (both are not finished but the work is coming along) - now lets look at the forward ;line and that means looking at Fev.

It is no good to just stick another option there and think that will change anything. It won't.

The players must be taught to see other options, Fev must be trained to be part of the forward set up and we must spread the goals so the forward line sees all goals as their contribution, not the goals they kick.

If the club thinks Fev cannot be part of a cohesive forward line where the load is spread evenly, and he may not, then as I have said in the past, I would trade him.

The way it is at the moment we will always tease and always struggle when the heat is on.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

We need to find more forwards with the courage, confidence and conviction to demand the footy. Fevola didn't own the forward line from day 1, it took him until 2003 to get to that point, after debuting in 1999.

Fisher has the courage, confidence and conviction to make an impact in the forward line. He kicked 39 goals last year. That's why Fevola sometimes crashes into him, because he is in the right spot and people do kick to Fisher...often. This year he has spent less time deep in attack though.

maybe to protect himself

but yes that too verbs, we need the kids to demand equal time. And thats going to take time.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Spot on verbs.

You can't blame the mids - if you look up and Fev is on a lead screaming for the ball and fish/kreuz/hartlett/carlos are meandering around without really demanding the ball you'd go for Fev every time.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

I think its a bit more than that though.

why demand the ball when you have 3 on you, lead hard and fast and pull those three away. Do it 3 times and those extra 2 will drop off to pick up the other men.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Spot on.

Why would defenders pay any respect to their opponents, when we obviously don't respect our players by kicking it to them.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

One of our other forwards needs to demand that respect.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Deano our other forwards have only been playing for a smidgen of time in terms of senior games.

They don't have the confidence to demand the ball like Fev.

I kid you not, I have seen Fisher calling for the ball like a galah on so many occassions that it scares me how often he is overlooked.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Demanding is not just done vocally - it's done by leading to the right spots, at the right times, and by rewarding the midfield's efforts with good conversion rates.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.