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Why is Fev our only key forward option?

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Synbad

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:50 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

Molly wrote:

Yes Michael Jezz...

you have always stuck by Waite as a CHF. My point isn't about Waite at CHF or CHB. It is that certain posters complain about development, but they only complain about it when we lose. We don't hear peep out of them when we win. In fact, in Synbad's case we heard him talking finals last week. Not a mention from him about development when we put Collingwood away. So are these guys actually serious about development, or are they only interested in carping when we lose?

Melvey is probably the only bloke who has been consistent week in week out in saying that we aren't developing. Everyone else who is on about it seems to be trying to get their 15 minutes of fame.

Im talking finals cos were good ewnough as individuals to be playing in finals/..

Teams are on the way down and teams are on the way up...

We can argue we have more talent than an Essendon* .. or a Richmond..a Collingwood.....or even a StKilda (theyre shot)....

Our best 2 players are better than any 2 players those 2 teams have...
We can argue the rest of the players are just as good as Richmonds /Collingwoods/Essendons....

But as a group we are lacking....

Yes we should make the finals with the competition in the state its in.. and the talent we now have....

Im not saying win the flower thing.. were way behind the top sides.. but we should beat the Essendons Richmonds of this world....

Or we can just let this season go by.. and tell ourselves.. next year.. next year.....

But before we can win.. outr players must gel... and football must kick in....

You cannot continue to make one excuse after another......when you dont have basic structures and patterns of play that you are working on and refining....

you really cant.....

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1979 Norm Smith medal

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:51 pm

Ken Hands

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 10:18 am
Posts: 410
Location: The Heatley Stand

RE:Synbad's point about Benjamin - I agree 100%

We need some new blood in there, we need to try our faster players and I definitely think Pfeiffer is one of our faster players. I would have him as a definite in this week.

Drop Russell.

re: benjamin.

He is apparently injured...according to the injury list.

Noticed that Walker is close to returning as well according to this list.

Dennis Armfield – Finger – 2-3 weeks

Jordan Bannister – Hamstring – Test

Clinton Benjamin – Quad – 3 weeks

Paul Bower – Shoulder – 5 weeks

Richard Hadley – Groin – Indefinite

Andrew Walker – Shoulder – Test.

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Molly

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:55 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:46 am
Posts: 3509
Location: Brisbane

Synbad,

So it is about finals because we have the talent as individuals, and we should be beating Essendon* and Collingwood you say. Fair enough. So is your argument really about development, or is your argument really about winning? Cause it seems that you only provide your argument about development when we lose.

Stir up talk about development after we win and I just might buy your argument.

Last edited by Molly on Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Synbad

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:55 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

Molly wrote:

Synbad said:

Quote:

Its all about structures..making space and working as a unit...

And yes the whole Judd is our muidfield becomes apparent when we lose....

Thats because Judd has been held when we lose.... and the others are ot combining as a group to step up to the void....
Noone is saying Browne cant get another run... Russell has had too many runs....
There are other players you can rest apart from Browne.. who is looking good...

Russell is there to block?????Well he has to block AND generate...!!!!

Benjamin might be ordinary on the Kramer street oval.. but hey!!!!... Russell doesnt star there either....!!!....

We did get killed for pace... and i would think Benjamin could be tried on the fast Dome surface and the wide open spaces of the MCG before stamping his papers.. 'Never to play football for the Carlton Football Club"..

Its like we are millionaires and throwing away $10 notes

Aisake a 6ft 7 tall who can run and has skills...doesnt grow on trees..

Yes they have been around a while but we drafted them as projects... they never played AFL growing up.. so youd think you can try and develop a footballer out of him if possible..
Benjamin probably in the top 10 fastest players in the AFL in a slowish side cant be encouraged to see what he can do on AFL playing surfaces??

Yeah hes our tagger/hbf on the small windy bumpy Kramer st oval... Laughing

BTW you dont have to be a big player to know how to bloc... seriously you dont..... u just come in with your self and help make room when your teammate needs room....(Giansiracusa)

So theyre very limited footballers.. but we gave each of them hefty contracts????? Laughing

Judd has been held when we won too. He did ok against West Coast and Freo and we still got across the line. He starred in the last quarters against Port and Collingwood (2nd time), but in each instance the rest of the team had to be good enough to keep us in the game to get us past the post. The first Collingwood game was a team effort, and the Melbourne game was just unspectacular all around. So when we've won, Judd has been outstanding in two games, ok in three others, and below par in one other. If Ratten's 'winning' gameplan is all about Judd and Fev then why do we win four of our six games when Judd has only been ok?

Oh... and is it Ratts' fault that we gave Stevens and Scotland hefty contracts? I didn't realise he was following the grant Thomas mode of negotiating contracts? :oops:

Ratts is the coach... he communicates who he wants and who he desnt work... and the CEO and the footy manager do the rest...

If Stevens Scotland Carrazzo etc are 'just' players ...why sign them on strong contracts????
If you cannot get improveent out of those players.. why pay big bucks???... :roll:

Every game we have won we have won becase Judd has made things happen.. whether over the whole game or a match winning quarter....

No Judd... no Carlton...!!!!
No Fev no goals...

Tell me again who is the second leading goalscorer at the club this year???
How many goals ???

How many of those goals that Betts has scores has he had to kick them out of his arse?????

That tells me the forward structure is [REDACTED]!!!... youre arguing are you???

_________________
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Synbad

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:58 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

Molly wrote:

Yeah is that when Judd just blitzes for a quarter.. and drags the others over the line???\

You dont think he is being run into the ground do you???

You think Judd has to do the whole lot week in week out???

Get real!!!

Judd should have to play in a team thats better structured to get the most out of himself..

He cant be leading tackles... hard ball gets.. clearances..providing the X factor.... at 75%.....can he???..

_________________
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Molly

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:00 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:46 am
Posts: 3509
Location: Brisbane

Where have I said our forward line works? It doesn't. Not an argument in site for me except to say that they Coaches have said they're working on it, and I believe they'll get there.

Now once again... who is signing Stevens and Scotland on these contracts? Who is doing the negotiations? Have their contracts come up when Ratts has been coach? I don't know... have they? Cause if they haven't then what sort of a say has he had?

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Sergeant.Blue

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:01 pm

formerly blue-insider

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:36 am
Posts: 292
Location: Caaaaaarlton

Synbad wrote:

We can argue the rest of the players are just as good as Richmonds /Collingwoods/Essendons....

Last time I checked, there was only one each of those teams...

_________________
No matter how long it takes Carlton to rebuild, they will still win a premiership before Essendon* and Collingwood.

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DownUnderChick

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:03 pm

Herald Sun columnist

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:26 pm
Posts: 10018
Location: Visy Park

Watch the Port game again Sailor Man and tell me who got us over the line.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

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Synbad

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:03 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

Molly wrote:

Once again the coach tells the CEO and footy manager how important those blokes are to the side when negotiating....

So Ratten had no hand in signing them ????
Is that what youre saying????

And they are saying were working on the forward line structures...but where is the evidence of it????

What have you seen that has caused you to believe they are working on the forward line stuctures???

Just 2 examples..????

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Molly

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:03 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:46 am
Posts: 3509
Location: Brisbane

Synbad said:

Quote:

eah is that when Judd just blitzes for a quarter.. and drags the others over the line???\

You dont think he is being run into the ground do you???

You think Judd has to do the whole lot week in week out???

Get real!!!

Judd should have to play in a team thats better structured to get the most out of himself..

He cant be leading tackles... hard ball gets.. clearances..providing the X factor.... at 75%.....can he???..

So next time we win against whoever it is, we can all expect a post from you complaining that Judd blitzed and had to do it all by himself? That's all good then. At least it would be more consistent than talking finals like you did after our last win. Finals one week, Judd shackled and broken the next... about as consistent as treacle Synners.

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Synbad

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:04 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

DownUnderChick wrote:

Watch the Port game again Sailor Man and tell me who got us over the line.

Down chick...i saw the game... who was it???

_________________
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DownUnderChick

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:05 pm

Herald Sun columnist

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:26 pm
Posts: 10018
Location: Visy Park

Synbad wrote:

DownUnderChick wrote:

Watch the Port game again Sailor Man and tell me who got us over the line.

Down chick...i saw the game... who was it???

Russell, My Smurph, Kroooz, Grigg, Waitey, Simmo - collective player effort.

Not just one man.

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bondiblue

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:05 pm

Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25323
Location: Bondi Beach

If it's true that under the Pagan years development of our young kids was stifled, and I believe there is enough evidence to support that position, then this year with the new regime in place surely it must be, in part at least, a development year.

Furthermore, given the plethora of kids around 20 yo in the Ants and seniors, surely there must be considerable focus, naturally, on their need for development. That's a given.

The development problems of the past were not solely caused by Pagan; the Mitchell-Pagan relationship, the general lack of confidence and plans for our future, instability at board level, the lack of available funding for development coaches and below standard antiquated facilities were also contributors to the problem.

Finally, we must remember that given we are are coming off 15th position in 2007 and we were not knocking on the door for a finals birth, we must be developing something to make not only the next flag but finals contention a reality.

We expect improvement, and wins are a by product of that, especially given the calibre of many of the recent acquaitions on our list, but to suggest it's not a development year implies we are expecting finals this year imo. I don't; that'll be a bonus if we are building a team in the process.

There are still too many gaps in our team, there are still too many questions in need for answers as we build our structure, game plan, mindset and skillset of our team.

It's a development year allright, and we've all been pleasantly surprised in our improvement since round 3; win or lose.

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Molly

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:06 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:46 am
Posts: 3509
Location: Brisbane

Quote:

Once again the coach tells the CEO and footy manager how important those blokes are to the side when negotiating....

So Ratten had no hand in signing them ????
Is that what youre saying????

What I am saying is this. Have the contracts for Stevens and Scotland come up while Ratten has been coach? They may have done... I honestly don't remember. If they haven't, then Ratten has precious little to answer for. If they have then I am more than happy to buy your point.

I'm also happy to buy your point about development if you want to be consistent. None of this finals one week and the sky is falling in the next. Be consistent, and your views may be worth some weight.

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Synbad

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:08 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

Molly wrote:

Synbad said:

Quote:

Molly i talk finals because if we dont start winning.. its going to be seven years.. and then eight years.. and then before we know it... the new clubs will be in the comp... and the teams on the slide will improve.. and we will be talking 8 years out and nine years... next year.. next year.....

What part of no forward line structure dont you get???
What part of no midfield coherency dont you get???
What part of an undrilled side dont you get????

What part of Fev has kicked almost 60 goals and our next best has 14.. with about 8 of those being kicked from out of his arse???

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Synbad

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:11 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

DownUnderChick wrote:

Synbad wrote:

DownUnderChick wrote:

Watch the Port game again Sailor Man and tell me who got us over the line.

Down chick...i saw the game... who was it???

Russell, My Smurph, Kroooz, Grigg, Waitey, Simmo - collective player effort.

Not just one man.

So u found one quattyer of football.. and Judd wasnt the trigger???
He wasnt?????

Remember Port lost again and again..since......

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

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DownUnderChick

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:12 pm

Herald Sun columnist

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:26 pm
Posts: 10018
Location: Visy Park

Synbad wrote:

DownUnderChick wrote:

Synbad wrote:

DownUnderChick wrote:

Watch the Port game again Sailor Man and tell me who got us over the line.

Down chick...i saw the game... who was it???

Russell, My Smurph, Kroooz, Grigg, Waitey, Simmo - collective player effort.

Not just one man.

So u found one quattyer of football.. and Judd wasnt the trigger???
He wasnt?????

Remember Port lost again and again..since......

Sailor Man you are drowning in all your posts.

You stated that in our wins that Judd has been the key or Fev.

I'm just pointing out in a win game, he wasn't and neither was Fev.

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Molly

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:13 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:46 am
Posts: 3509
Location: Brisbane

Synbad said:

Quote:

What part of no forward line structure dont you get???
What part of no midfield coherency dont you get???
What part of an undrilled side dont you get????

I've already said I don't disagree with you about our forward line.
I disagree about the midfield because I think that when we've won it has revolved around a lot more than just Judd.
I've never bought into any argument about undrilled.

What I am buying into is that on the one hand you talk about winning, and on the other hand you say development is more important. It is pretty inconsistent stuff. Now as I say... I expect that next time we win, you will once again present a development argument, rather than just sitting there waiting and watching and ready to pounce on a loss. That's all pretty easy stuff, and pretty tiresome.

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club29

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:15 pm

John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 9106
Location: Nth Fitzroy

I am quite happy for the players to learn to win one contest at a time this season. Learning to be strong in the contest and learning to take instructions is good enough for me this season.

The core of our team going forward are very young. They will take time and games before it all gels.

I also believe the coaches are working on building a modern forward line when they say they are. If people on footy fansites can see the shortcomings of the current fwd set up i am sure a premiership players, best and fairest winners and blokes with coaching experience can.

Blokes like Stevens and Carrazzo and possibly Scotland will all be replaced by better versions of themselves in time.

I am very impressed with Ratten so far.

Go Blues !

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Synbad

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:21 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

DownUnderChick wrote:

Synbad wrote:

DownUnderChick wrote:

Synbad wrote:

DownUnderChick wrote:

Watch the Port game again Sailor Man and tell me who got us over the line.

Down chick...i saw the game... who was it???

Russell, My Smurph, Kroooz, Grigg, Waitey, Simmo - collective player effort.

Not just one man.

So u found one quattyer of football.. and Judd wasnt the trigger???
He wasnt?????

Remember Port lost again and again..since......

Sailor Man you are drowning in all your posts.

You stated that in our wins that Judd has been the key or Fev.

I'm just pointing out in a win game, he wasn't and neither was Fev.

Down chick... if you think Judd didnt win that game for us.. then you were watching old 'Bold and the Beautiful 'tapes...

Judd opened that right up in the last quarter..

Sure others had a hand.. but again the Judd factor got us over the line....

As well as playing a more unpredictable forward line structure (AKA KREUZER!!) :lol:

But then he dropped Hampson and Kreuzer had to ruck against Essendon*.......

So youre agreeing with me in essence... but you cant see it...!!! :-D

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