Also.. if Voss (or anyone else)was going abut things as unimaginatively as Ratts i would be just as annoyed...

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What i see is that we are becoming more and more about results and not development.

Garry Lyon's article about list cloggers was spot on. Ratts needed to make the hard calls on several players put a line through them and bring about a new era for the club.

Don't get me wrong i couldn't be more thankful and appreciative but what concerns me is the hard work by Dick Pratt to get this club stable and now heading in the right direction off field seems as if there is some pressure for instant results.

Season 2008 should have been about development, teaching, learning, skill work, structure, skill under pressure and so on.

No young player has been able to settle and an example of this is Russel goin back on Matty Lloyd, playing across half back, playing on the flanks, Shaun Grigg lose man in defense, back pocket, a run with stopping player. Setanta playing forward and back. The over use of a very young Matty Kruezer.

Why wasn't 2008 and about defining roles within the side, making the call and settling players in a position. Some of the kids out there are running around like headless chocks with no direction.

For me it just strengthens my view that key selective criteria with Ratten's appointment as senior coach was he says yes.

Harts will do this role far better than Fisher ... this has been Fish's role recently and anyone who's seen him play knows that's not his strength. Fish needs to play alongside Fev out of the FP. When all the defenders go to Fev in a pack mark, Fish has shown time and time again his ability to glide in and take a grab. Fish is also a good read of the miskick out of the middle but there's no point him marking it outside of 40m. He's down on confidence because he's being played too far up the ground.

Harts on the other hand, is a solid lead up player and a proven goal kicker from 40+ metres. Ideally suited to play the Riewoldt role.

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"It was like calling your ex girlfriend after a night on the booze, just a really bad decision".

But if Harts is playing the lead up role to the wing, we are again stuck with the kick it to Fev dilemma.

Fish leads up and then kicks to one of either Fev or Harts.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

You can't argue with Spuds article though he is pretty much spot on

but he is stating the obvious

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They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

The HAmpson thing was a joke.
Fair enough... although he hadn't done heaps in the past few games it wouldn't have hurt him to get picked and continue to learn. Likewise it didn't do much harm for Browne to get another run.

The continual use of Russell is a joke.
He's in there for the blocking and making room you argue we don't do. I agree we don't do it by the way, but Russell is in there to try and make for a more mature body in the midfield. If Hadley, Bannister and Walker were playing I'd be betting you that Russell wouldn't be.

The stonewalling of Aisake and Benjamin is a joke...
I haven't seen the Bullants play this year. What I saw from Benjamin last year was ordinary, and the rumours of attitude problems from the O'Hailpins have been around for a while. It's up to them (the players) to pick themselves up and prove something to the coaches, not the other way around.

The trialling of Edwards and putting him away is a joke..
Agreed. 100% agreed.

The non use of Pfeiffer and Hartlett is a joke....
Pfeiffer yes... Hartlett breaks down every time we pick him. We'll probably pick him this week and then it is lotto as to how long he lasts.

The one dimmensioned forward line is a joke...
Its been like it for 6 years. It won't change overnight. If it is still like it this time next year then I'll be extremely worried. It is also a cattle problem... Hartlett injured, Kennedy traded, and the non-use of Edwards have hampered us. Although I will counter this by saying I think they have erred by not using Edwards more. He has been a useful foil in all three games he has played.

The over reliance of Judd in the midfield is a joke...
The over reliance is only apparent in the losses. It is not a factor in the wins because he has support. Gibbs and Betts for example were prominent in the last quarter against Collingwood. Bentick was prominent (along with Simpson) against Port. The onus is on our other players to lift and support Judd when we are losing. I just reckon it is too easy to blame the coaches for that... the players are the ones who need to have a fair dinkum look at themselves on that one.

The lack of blocking and making room is a joke...
Agreed. But you don't want to play Russell and we don't have Walker, Hadley, or Bannister. The rest of the kids need at least 1-2 offseasons in the gym. That leaves Bentick to clear room for Judd. Who else have we got that can do it?

Setanta to get the chop this week will be a joke...
Fair enough.

The fact that alot of our players arent improving isnt a good side...Some are... (kids with natural improvement ).. but blokes like Scotland Stevens Simmo Carrazzo havent... IMO
Do those guys have improvement in them though? Scotland is 27 (or so) and was a one trick pony under Pagan... late to get new tricks into him. Stevens is coming back from a career-threatening injury, and will never be the same player in my belief. Simmo is doing ok. Carrazzo has probably got the most out of himself with limited ability. If you want to drop these blokes then it is no skin off my nose, but to hang the coaches out to dry because they haven't improved ignores the fact that in 3 of the 4 cases you've mentioned the guys are very limited footballers.

Before the end of this season we need to give Hartlett an extended run (3 weeks minimum) in the seniors in my opinion. He is in his fourth year and a decision needs to be made on his future.
If he plays well then maybe we have solved out "tall forward" problem.....if he doesn't play well or gets injured again than move him on and draft another kid. Either way he shows "promise" at VFL level and we need to give him a chance to show his wares at AFL level.

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There is no footy god

Trade Fev for something good at years end!

This is the only way we are going to move forward!

Ofcourse Ratten is going to say kick it to Fev! look at his success rate.

U got players liek Fisher who struggle to kick goals from 4o metres out!

This is unacceptable!


In place of Wiggins and Fisher lets see if Hrtlett & Edwards can do something!


Ratten better make some changes this week as I am nearly on Synbad's bandwagon!

I'm pretty sure the club would like to but every time he is selected for the seniors he gets injured or rubbed out!

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C'mon Blueboys!

Can we drop the trade Fev bullsh!t, the club are trying to sign him for 3 years FFS! He wont be traded (unless ofcourse there are multiple 1st round picks involved, a small Pacific island and an off-shore oil rig or 2 ).

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C'mon Blueboys!

Also...

the argument from certain posters that this season is about development and not wins is nonsense. Well... the argument is ok (it's a good one), but they don't honestly believe it. Otherwise, why does their Ratten bashing only happen after a loss? They're happy while we are winning.

It's not just Fev though, it's the delivery to the forward line as a whole. I noticed this during the Collingwood game, and I am definitely no expert. Fev was leading 50-60m out from goal every time the ball came to him. Which is fine, but kicking goals from that range means that conversion is not all that great.

Meanwhile, if any of our players bothered looking elsewhere they would've seen another one of our players hanging back at the 10-20m mark which would obviously be an easier shot on goal. I dunno who this player was but it was obviously a plan that wasn't properly executed or understood by the mid-field.

Also, why does Fev line up for goal at that distance?? Someone should lead closer to goal for a better shot yes?? Opposition players are normally asleep or having a drink from a runner when Fev is lining up for goal. But Fev insists on kicking for goal at 60m and invariably missing.

I do not want him sacked i just think there is a long way to go as a groupp and Fisher and Wiggo aint our future and he keeps playing them!!

We need to get out of the Fevola at all costs mentality and raise our heads for the best option. We need Fevola to start to play as part of the forward line and stop demanding/ridiculing his teamates. We need to have mutlitple options made available for all this to happen as well.

Thats crap. I for one said Waite has to play Center Half Forward before the season started and not playing Hampson does the club no favours

Its all about structures..making space and working as a unit...

And yes the whole Judd is our muidfield becomes apparent when we lose....

Thats because Judd has been held when we lose.... and the others are ot combining as a group to step up to the void....
Noone is saying Browne cant get another run... Russell has had too many runs....
There are other players you can rest apart from Browne.. who is looking good...

Russell is there to block?????Well he has to block AND generate...!!!!

Benjamin might be ordinary on the Kramer street oval.. but hey!!!!... Russell doesnt star there either....!!!....

We did get killed for pace... and i would think Benjamin could be tried on the fast Dome surface and the wide open spaces of the MCG before stamping his papers.. 'Never to play football for the Carlton Football Club"..

Its like we are millionaires and throwing away $10 notes

Aisake a 6ft 7 tall who can run and has skills...doesnt grow on trees..

Yes they have been around a while but we drafted them as projects... they never played AFL growing up.. so youd think you can try and develop a footballer out of him if possible..
Benjamin probably in the top 10 fastest players in the AFL in a slowish side cant be encouraged to see what he can do on AFL playing surfaces??

Yeah hes our tagger/hbf on the small windy bumpy Kramer st oval...

BTW you dont have to be a big player to know how to bloc... seriously you dont..... u just come in with your self and help make room when your teammate needs room....(Giansiracusa)

So theyre very limited footballers.. but we gave each of them hefty contracts?????

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Yes Michael Jezz...

you have always stuck by Waite as a CHF. My point isn't about Waite at CHF or CHB. It is that certain posters complain about development, but they only complain about it when we lose. We don't hear peep out of them when we win. In fact, in Synbad's case we heard him talking finals last week. Not a mention from him about development when we put Collingwood away. So are these guys actually serious about development, or are they only interested in carping when we lose?

Melvey is probably the only bloke who has been consistent week in week out in saying that we aren't developing. Everyone else who is on about it seems to be trying to get their 15 minutes of fame.

The next time someone talks about pace and our lack thereof, I say to you these two words.

David Clarke.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Synbad said:


Judd has been held when we won too. He did ok against West Coast and Freo and we still got across the line. He starred in the last quarters against Port and Collingwood (2nd time), but in each instance the rest of the team had to be good enough to keep us in the game to get us past the post. The first Collingwood game was a team effort, and the Melbourne game was just unspectacular all around. So when we've won, Judd has been outstanding in two games, ok in three others, and below par in one other. If Ratten's 'winning' gameplan is all about Judd and Fev then why do we win four of our six games when Judd has only been ok?

Oh... and is it Ratts' fault that we gave Stevens and Scotland hefty contracts? I didn't realise he was following the grant Thomas mode of negotiating contracts?