Sorry mate. That's the way i saw it. You disagree? GREAT........ Good news for you..... each person on here is entitled to their opinion. And mine is of Stevens, who is a so-called A-list elite midfielder and his less-than-impressive form in the last 3 games. One good quarter against Port, hardly anything against Collingwood and half assed attempts today despite racking up 25+ possessions.

Murphy, whilst his skill level has been poor (and i have made mention of this heaps of times) still chases hard, wants the ball and has the intensity that makes the difference.

Sorry......just the way i see it.

Doesn't mean i hate him,......just means i want him to give a little bit more. But if your happy with his performances this year..... good for you.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

'As for saying we will get beaten, mate i know we are still shit and slowly becoming a bunch of pretenders because supporters like you and many Carlton supporters manage to talk up players as superstars when there nothing but ordinary footballers.'

you're right Melvey our supporters are a bunch of front running pretenders. Where have all the hard supporters gone?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Geez your a tool Melv

With statements like we are still shit and are pretenders get a reality check hey

We have improved from 2007

Not sure where i stated all our players where superstars .... we have some good potential players who are getting valuable games and show definate good signs but hey yer all our players are shit Melvey and

Contested possesions maybe you should get some info before stating Blues are around 7th in the League for Contested Possesions.

End of the day we got smashed in the Middle. Our best player got concussed in first quarter. we have some good players maybe some will become greats for the club and also some wont make it this happens every year have we improved yes.
As for pace only one of the bombers with stacks of pace was lovett murray .i reckon simmo did a pretty good job for us doing a similar thing.

But yep we are pretenders and have gone backwards lets trade all our duds like Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Kruzer, Fev etc

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CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

Pro's:
Team learn't a valuable lesson in that as good as it is that we can fight our way back in the last, this is not always going to result with a win.

Another game into all our young guys in front of a good crowd

Lesson learned of what happen when you get in front of yourselves. Better now in a development year rather than when the window opens.


Con's:

We lost a game that we could and should have won.

Blew finals chance this year.

Again team not switched on from the first bounce. Happened too many times this year.

TC after a loss. Too many barrackers and not enough supporters on this site, get too far ahead of themselves when we win and bash all their favourite whipping boys or agenda's when we lose.
Being a Carlton supporter means that you support the team win or lose, but especialy after a loss when they need the support the most.

Pros:
Gibbs and Stevens

Cons:
Carrazzos 10 critical errors. Allowing a spud like Monfries to kick 4.
Signing up Fisher for 2 years

Pros
When we dominate, we are very, very good team.
Look out when we play 4 qtrs of footy.

Cons
Melvin has a reason for getting up in the morning.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Pros; It was good while it lasted (being in the
Fev, Stevens, Simpson

Cons: Giving them a 7 goal lead early
Setanta has still got a lot learn about defensive play and may need to learn it in the Ants
Getting smashed in clearances. We've been roving to opposition ruckmen all year before yesterday.
Orange boots and Monfries getting a kick

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T E A M

PROS

We came back from a huge deficit again today and could have won... Even though we really deserved to get beaten badly.

A kick in the pants does most teams the world of good. We are a much better team than the dons and this loss should hurt bad.

Stevens - Seems he CAN do the hard stuff wen needed. Also, how good is his kicking for goal. Pity some of our forwards don't have his accuracy or distance.

Setanta - Lucas did jack all. The last 2 spoils were noted but otherwise another great game. Sticks to the task like no other. Put him on Richo next week, and tell him to stay with him ALL game.

Gibbs - For mine is the most consistent in this team. Even a couple of weeks back when Ratten said he wasn't playing well, I still thought he was doing better than most. A gun

Armfield - Good to see we have found that tough quick back pocket we are after. Check that one off, now, how do we find a CHF or any other forward that our midfielders will trust to kick goals...

Fev - He was great, but our dependence on him is not.

Wiggins - Gee his upside is small but his week in week out efforts.... if only everybody put in like this.







CONS


Fisher - He should be given kicking distance and accuracy training for the next month, until he can kick 10 in a row from 45 out straight in front, he is in the two's.

Ratten - Have been very happy with him, but way too slow to react today, let alone being proactive... Carrots should have been moved way earlier in the first quarter and we may not have had much of a deficit to chase. How bout putting Kruez forward and leaving him there. Just like pagan did with Kennedy. 5 mins at CHF if you don't turn the game in that time, you are outa there. We should have had the hammer in this week. Why bring in browne when we are struggling to cover Essendons height anyway? Also why did we leak like a sieve again today. What happened to our new defensive game plan.......

Murphs disposal - ouch

Carrots - has been great in the back pocket the last 3 weeks, but today very ordinary.

Cloke - I really like him, but where do you play him? Too small and not enough leap for the ruck. Great kick, but just can't seem to get it at CHF. I guess just too easily spoiled?

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Window = Open

I would call Stevens a con......

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Haven't seen the game at all, and don't intend on seeing it. But I would say that a real pro from this game is that it was a learning experience. Our young team simply got ahead of itself. That happens to many young sides on the rise, and I was fearful it may happen. The main thing is to turn this into a positive... ie the lads remember what winning feels like, and they know what losing feels like, so they make sure they don't get ahead of themselves and drop their bundle like this again.

Glad somebody aggrees with me.

Look............somebody else on here said it best (can't find the person so sorry if it sounds like i'm stealing your material). Stevens has a pretty good 'offensive' side to his game, but 'deffensivly' he is shit. Woefull. Far to many times i see him give up a chase after two or 3 steps.

For him to be Vice Captain and a leader at this club i would expect better.

Murphy, whilst his dissposal is down, has the intestity and determination in his 2nd efforts that put him ahead of Stevens in my book.

Just IMO

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

PROS:
Excellent games by Fevola and Stevens. Simpson was good. Gibbs was quite good too, for someone of his inexperience he looks like he's played 100 games, just needs a fulltime midfield role now.

Superb effort to come back from so far down, and even take the lead during the last.

Some of the goals kicked yesterday were rippers.

CONS:
Too many players not getting enough of the ball - Armfield 5, Bentick 6, Cloke 10, Grigg 10, Jamison 5, O'hAilpin 4, Russell 3.

Sometimes Melvey 25% of what you come out with I consider home truths and although it's hard for me to admit it, I actually think at those times that you are a Carlton supporter and have some understanding of the game.

The above post blows that out of the water. If you truly believe what you have stated in the above post you obviously have no idea whatsoever. You talk about others on this site having a lob-sided "Pro Carlton" view on things, well what the flower do you think that your posts are? Well balanced? Objective? Constructive? Level headed?

Clearly you are not a Carlton supporter, and if for some unknown reason you actually are, you are a very poor one.

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"If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself" - Henry Ford

PRO:

The heart to keep trying and even get in front from so far back.


CONS:

Turnovers most notably by Marc Murphy and Andrew Carazzo

The margin blowing out by so much in the end and losing to this joke of a team twice this season.

Grigg went missing ... Judd concussed

I thought we were talking about pros and cons from yesterday, not the season.

I don't care whether Stevens has a reputation as an A grader or about his salary or his ambitions for captaincy or his season to date. Looking at yesterday, he was clearly a pro as 90% of the people on here have stated.

We all know Murphy is a fantastic player as well but again based on yesterday he was no pro. I'm sure Murphy would've been very disappointed with himself as those turnovers were under minimal pressure and were very costly. He is only young and is going to have a fantastic career but yesterday he was poor.

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Don't blame it on the sunshine, don't blame it on the moonlight, don't blame it on the good times, blame it on the WIGGINS!

We are talking about Pros and Cons yesterday.......and again, much like the whole season, yesterday Stevens showed that he has failed to lift the 'Defensive' side of his game, and to be an A-List elite player like he is claimed AND PAID to be, he needs to do this.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

For mine, Stevens was a pro yesterday. Like it or not, Stevens' role in our set up is to be on the end of the handball and sticking down Fevs gob, or sticking it through the goalposts.

Sadly, yesterday showed that we have a bare minimum of truly effective, consistent kicks in our team. Stevens is one of them, however - so you don't want him getting the hard ball, you want him positioned where he's going to do the most damage. If we had 12 blokes who could reliably hit a target week in week out, then maybe more onus would be on him to pick up the defensive side of his game.

We got smashed at clearances, contested ball and efficiency yesterday. All the endeavour in the word won't overcome that. Murph and Carrots had absolute mares, and accross the board there looked like an emotional let down from the last two weeks. Throw in a few positive articles and you can see where a young team will get ahead of itself and just think turning up will be good enough.

Lesson learned yesterday, hopefully there's some long term benefit out of this, because losing to that mob is never good.

Gibbs was good, who knows what would have happened had that shot been a little to the left in the last. Simmo was good, Betts servicable, Kreuz was good around the ground. Fev was Fev. Just not enough contributors, however.

Good point mate. If that Gibbs goal had gone through, i reckon we would have won. But ahhh well....... it wasn't the easiest of shots.

Kreuzer was good around the ground. He's gonna be something special, no doubt about it.

Appreciate your points on Stevens..... and aggree with you to a degree, but also argue the point that when he chases 'half-heartedly' and doesn't look like caring, it doesn't reflect well on teammates around him, especially the youth.

Each to their own. Stevens, IMHO only, needs to lift that side of his game before i can even consider him an A-List / Elite / Leader!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Spot on.

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Don't blame it on the sunshine, don't blame it on the moonlight, don't blame it on the good times, blame it on the WIGGINS!

In the 3rd Eddie Betts got 2 centre clearances in a row, where not one of our other players looked like doing it. To my reckoning, he didn't return to the centre square again

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T E A M