Thought we could try and bring all those scattered discussions into this thread because I think this is important.

1%ers:

Is Ratts and co developing this side to our game? Are we seeing any improvement in this side of our game?

Are the same olds still playing the same old way and should we accept this?

Set Plays - apart from the tempo football, are wer seeing set plays?

If so are we seeing those set plays, and the structures change depending on what is happening, or do we have the game, tempo football when the game isn't working?


If this is about development, should we be seeing signs of new set plays? Should we be seeing players in new roles game by game and even during games?

Are these things happening.

My own opinion is that I think we still accept certain players are allowed to not put in and leave it up to the kids. I think this has been a problem for a long, long time.

As for flexibility - do you first need the basics before you can be flexible? And aren't the 1%ers the basics of football (along with marking, kicking and hand balling) - sao why are we still showing a lack of blocking, shepherding etc.?

Why is Judd not allowed to stay out of the packs (or get some blocks when he is in there) and force others to do the grunt work?

I never thought we'd be any good this year - we are too young, but, are we developing? I think its a fair enough question.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

our 1%ers barely exist....major negative of our game

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"You don’t get much more Navy Blue than Stephen Kernahan" - Marc Murphy

Really interesting how much difference there is between the game plan in the preseason and the real season game plan.

There was definetely more intent to run and carry the ball with the objective being to break the lines. I don't see that now.

Synners is livid about the lack of team focus from the players. He's suggesting the coach is not teaching this well.

I don't know why this is the case, but we are definetely not supporting Judd and other team mates with blocks, shepherds, talking etc. My guess is that we're not running the ball as a team and we are playing a stop start possession game.

Moving forward we need to work on the 1%ers. Players should support each other.

It was envisaged that Bentick and Hadley would be ideal to block for Judd giving him a clear path to use his footy skills. Bentick is at the bottom of packs, as is Hadley (when fit) dishing the ball out, so they can't be in a pack, feeding and blocking. What are the other players doing?

Murphy isn't the type to atm, Carrazzo should, so should Stevens, but they are playing the loose man role. Scotland has a strong body and is capable of being intense towards the man and the ball, but his role seems to be as a receiver to run and carry.

As much as he's criticised I do see Russell blocking a bit. A bit is not what I'm calling for, I'm calling for a collective effort till it becomes instinctive like.

Anderson has got it...the 1%ers, so has Armfield. Some others..Fev, Kreuzer, Jamison, Setanta, Waite, Gibbs, (skinny little) Simmo....we miss Walker, Rhys-Jones, Jonno, Harmes, Brown, Ratten....

We've got to toughen up and learn to take the hits for our team mates. We've got to get these kids in the gym and give those with the stronger bodies the charter to go in and do the tough 1%ers and hurt the opposition, to help out their team mates and our game plan.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I think last week showed that our talk can dry up pretty quick when things aren't going our way.

That's as important as a block or shepherd, moreso if you're out of position to do such things.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Kreuzer in defence provided the best example of what the basics are in football. When playing on Hawkins in the last quarter he just followed him every where with a hand touching him on the side. Nothing spectacular but a small detail that provides perceived pressure in his opponents mind. It may not go down as a 1% but that one bit of play told me alot more about Kreuzer than any kick, mark, goal or hit out.

The other 1% I always look for is bumping a player after he handballs to stop the one two overlapping by the opposition. I heard one of the players talk about this the other week as a focus, yet too many times you see players not following through with it.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

The differnce between teams pulling one way as one and not can be found in Freo players like Medhurst....

"wash the purple out of him"


Now whether we are teaching them the right stuff and they run on the field refusing to do them... means someone needs to be made an example of....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Kreuzer is a natural... he is a god send...

you worry about those not in the Kreuzer class...

.. and the basic structures that will take the forward..

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Totally agree with the "carrying the ball" comment. Appears to have gone by the wayside in recent weeks.

Lack of awareness and lack of talk (no talk) appear evident as well.

Just looking out for one another out there would get that graph moving ever so slightly in the positive direction.

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"IF YOU FAIL TO PREPARE, YOU'RE PREPARED TO FAIL" - Mark Spitz

I seriously reckon the little team things that havent been done by the regulars and there is no need to name them have to be told to change or its piss off.

Stevens is apparently contracted till 2010 which is a problem.

Something simply has to be done.
Judd held up that ball 20 min in the second quarter because he had been bashed from pillar to post.
Embarrasing

Ratten must have the policy
Nosquibs
Everyone in
This has to be the first problem addressed.
As Dannyboy has said the leadership from our senior players has been shit in this area.
IT MUST CHANGE

no good teaching players how to block - Won't be long and the AFL will introduce a 4th umpire to police the block

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Set Plays - The Kick Ins

These have come up for discussion again, so I did a quick flip through the replay and recorded some of what happened with each kick-in.

#1 Scotland - Kick outside 50 to Hammer, Geelong mark.
#2 Scotland - Short corridor kick, handball back to running Scotland ball out of bounds about 80M out.
#3 Thornton - Kick outside 50 to Kruezer, spills to geelong crumbers.
#4 Judd - Short wide kick, switch played in back 50, breaks down with dropped Wiggins mark on the wing.
#5 Armfield - Kick to 50 on boundary, good mark, kick-in ruled on line so brought back to square for ball up.
#6 Thornton - Kick to 50 to Simpson for mark, chain of possessions ends up in Fevola shot on goal.
#7 Simpson - Short kick wide with three seconds left, Siren.
---------------
#8 ? - Long kick to Thornton, switch made in back 50, chain of possessions ends in goal to Scotland.
#9 Simpson - Short wide kick, possession broke down on the wing.
#10 Grigg - Kick to self, plays on, long kick to Thornton who punches, breaks down on wing.
----------------
#11 Carrazzo - Short kick clanger, scrambled out of 50 to boundary.
#12 Carrazzo - Kick to Bentick wide, ends up on the wing.
#13 Carrazzo - Kick wide to Armfield, long kick to wing, over the boundary.
#14 Carrazzo - Long kick to Kruezer, outmarked.
#15 Setanta - Short kick to corridor, back to running Setanta, runs through the fat side ball ends up in our attacking 50.
#16 #17 not shown on the replay
#18 Simpson - Short kick to corridor, end up at boundary about 80m out from Geelong goal.
---------------
#19 Scotland - Short kick to corridor, run out of 50 through chain of possessions, breaks down momentarily before ending up with a goal to Gibbs.

Kick-ins

Carrazo 4
Scotland 3
Simpson 3
Thornton 2
Armfield, Judd, Grigg, Setanta

Styles

Short 7 Long 7
Corridor 5
Switches of play 2
One-Twos 2
Long kick to ruckman 3


Now I'm not sure if this proves or disproves anything about what has been said about our kick ins. Seems as though things were deliberately being mixed up. We ended up with three shots on goal from kick-ins two of which were goals. 4 of thr 17 kick-ins here ended up in our 50.

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Typical...... you...

thats like saying dont worry about getting a job youre going to lose it cos ww3 is around the corner...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad we won the clearances - there must have been some protection provided for the ball getter.

Blokes like Hadley and Bannister are better equipped at this than Murph - simpson , Grigg and Gibbs -Stevens and Scotland are outside players and if you watch other teams at the ruck contests the biggest blocks are actually provided by the ruckmen - Our two kids in Kruez and Hampson are just learning to get their hands on the ball . Watch this week and see how much bullocking Brogan and Lade do .


but I am right the AFL will start policing the block more and more in the coming years - do you agree with that

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Whats that gopt to do with protecting the ball carrier????

We win clearances cos Judd is busting a nut..!!!

You coach to todays rules not pre empt whats coming up...

We dont protect our players....

Anyone shepherd in that game???
Murpoh hunted down and crunched twice...

Bower paid for it with the rest of the season...

Thats what will happen to you if you dont provide protection...

If you put your body between the opposition and the ball.... youre not going to get a side kick to the head.....and die...!!!

you might even get a free kick down the ground at worst...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

We were beaten by a bunch of bigger kids -it happens on nearly every sporting field every weekend across Australia

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

our list is horribly imbalanced

too many outsiders and half back flank come utilities

not enough hard nuts and workers

you could call us flat track bullies if we ever managed to bully anyone

we are more like selfish front running fairies - but then again we dont run

shit i dont know what we are then.

just imbalanced i guess

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

In todays footy you have to have every player working hard for each other


No passengers

Its like you cant run you cant play now

If you have players who are more interested in how many possessions they get each week than putting on a block or sheperd etc you will be found out against teams who play for each other

All players are stronger in the upper body

On average players are 6 kg heavier compared to 15 years ago. Much of that is in the upper body. They are better coached. Thats why you have to have everybody playing for each other. You get found out otherwise.

A couple of weak links in the chain can leave you horribly exposed when real pressure is on

That didnt happen against the dockers because they are in the same position as us. Too many players looking for the cheap and easy. Dont forget it was only
1 Miracle goal from Pfeiffer
2 That idiot farmer not manning up on Carrazzo
3Pavlich choking

that saved us from losing that game

It was embarrasing that our captain had to start tempo 10 minutes before the end of the quarter because he was physically rooted.

And thats because the serial offenders who dont put their bodies on the line were exposed.


Now ratten has to show he has got the balls to do something about it

As a player there was no better in the one percenter category.



But that doesnt automatically transfer over to him that he can change how Scotland....... plays
He better if he wants to keep his job

The honeymoon period is over for ratten

If players dont start playing team footy we wont progress

Very simple equation

Seriously, I cant believe some of the utter crap that is being delivered here this week.
Suddenly because we were beaten by last years premiers, we're going nowhere!

Some of you need to take an information pill and have a lay down. Someone mentions that Judd signals for tempo football because he's "rooted" and suddenly its gospel! Maybe he did it because the Cats had momentum and he wanted to quell it. (Which it did!)
Others say Ratten called for tempo football (more guesswork) and take the opportunity to take potshots at Ratten.

We are coming from miles behind all of our opponents in terms of development and set plays. Since when did that change?
Our players are learning structures and set ups from the absolute basics. Some of you need to get informed about whats required to run a successful kickout structure. Its not just a matter of "you stand there and get the ball"!

Every players needs to understand everyone role. You need to know what the left back pocket does, what the right half back does, what the tagger does and where he stands. Any player could play any number of roles during a game so he needs to know what every role entails.
Multiply that by 6-10 kickout strategies and you're talking months/years to nail it down, not 10 games!!!

Then you have stoppage structures, defensive kickout strategies etc etc etc.
Its not like being at adelaide or Geelong where the one or two new players can be instructed and assisted by the 15 experienced players. We have 18 players running around who are learning this stuff from ground zero.
Add in issues like information overload (you can only expect the players to absorb so much information before it becomes confusing) and it just cant be learnt overnight.
Plus we need to remember that footballers are in reality a cross section of the community. Some will be perceptive and pick up the details quickly whilst some others may be as dumb as dogshit.
Any of these plays will only be as strong as the weakest link.
Some will take months of nailing down before they can even be attempted in a game yet we expect instant results.

I also read that Rattens tactical nous is being questioned. Can he compete with Wallace and Eade tactically?
I suspect several people are overestimating the role of the coach on match day. Matches are rarely won by "tricks" or tactics. Sure Terry wallace believes they are but thats why he's still coaching a dud team in his 5th year.
Games are won by the preparation and development of players. Good teams have the players making the correct decisions about countering strategies when they occur. Not waiting for the coaches box to send the message.

Ratten may not be a tactical genius yet but dont kid yourself that theres a "magic bag"of tricks to win games. Games are won by well developed teams. Our is still miles off that.

As for blocks and shepherds etc, Bentick attempted to apply heaps of blocks for Judd on Saturday. As for running to support, players should have an awareness of whats happening around them. Murph was run down from behind but so was Ling, so was Bartel and Wojcinsky. The difference is that the Geelong players have the size to still get the handball away when they are tackled. It takes time and development.

As for the third quarter, Geelongs burst had nothing to do with our tempo football. If that was the case, they would have come out and blown us away immediately. Yet we were competitive for the first 5-7 minutes.
The fact is they were too big, too talented and too good for us.
Players like Murhy, Gibbs and co. dont have the endurance to run with Bartel, Corey and co. yet. And nor they should.
Unless you want OP riddled hacks out there, its going to take more than 2 or 3 pre seasons to have our kids at the required level.

I'm not saying Ratten is the saviour but seriously, expecting our players to be suddenly developed after 5 years of neglect is farcical. Have this discussion in 18 months.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

some fair points BV and hopefully most people are not questioning the kids, they are, after, kids - it'll take about 5 years in the system for them to really strut their stuff -

I guess my question is really about the belief by some (I think it was Walls the other night, yes I know but still he did coach and play at the highest level - that said all players now must chase,tackle, block etc).

Do you believe all the senior players at Carlton put in?

and of not, do you think they can be carried, or has the game changed to the point that they must put in?

Is this why Ratts has been using Stevo in a different role - force him to understand the second/third efforts required when he hasn't got the ball?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Not every week Danny but did all the Geelong players put in against Collingwood when they were flogged by 86 points?
Young players are inconsistent. Its a fact of life. Our senior players are carrying a heavier load than several other teams.

Just to expand on that, in the 2nd quarter Stevens went out of the midfield and Gibbs and Murphy joined Judd in the centre square. Geelong proceeded to smash us at the next 3 stoppages and put us behind the 8 ball straight away. What would the supporters expect Ratten to do?
Leave the kids there and get hammered or put an unrested Stevens back in the middle?

We have a first class starting midfield but we're competing against Ablett, Corey, Bartel, Ling, Enright, Kelly, Wojcinsky, Selwood etc.

Unfortunately most of our players were weaker, younger and less experienced than their Geelong opponents. They may have the will and intent but unfortunately they dont all have the endurance and physical capacity to make the required contests yet.

Do I believe we are improving and playing with more intensity, consistency and understanding of the game? Yes.
After a few months under a new coach, thats a reasonable progression IMO.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.