Fair point i can understand where your coming from.

might work too play him as a tall marking deep forward option but is till think Fisher has to go find some form. He is supposed to be our second goal kicking option in attack but he hasnt kicked too many lately.

What i meant about heads rolling is the conclusions everyone jumps too when certain players have a bad game.

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Blue boy thru and thru

Pros; Armfield

Con; After hearing all week about how Collingwood bludgeoned Geelong into submission, it was very disappointing to see such feeble efforts at tackling, shepherding, running, bumping. Ratten needs to set some examples. If players refuse to put their bodies on the line, find some who will.
Russell has to go. Scotland has to go.
Wiggins tries hard but just doesnt have it.

Seeing Judd gangtackled every ballup making Ling's job very easy while G Ablett can waltz around any pack with impunity was very upsetting. i would have liked to see us target him. Even if it meant Bartel or corey were free, we had to make a statement on their playmaker.

I think the fact that we did discuss what were going to do to Geelong, was a problem as well.

Its all very good to discuss how we should be playing Geelong, and then coming out and serving how we did play them.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

CON: Fisher. He hasn't got much more to offer. Average kick, Average tackler, Average speed, average turning circle but a beautiful marking 3rd-4th tall and here's the rub................


PRO: We may be able to get a decent trade pick for him.

I thought there were many pros to come out of the game.

Armfield is going to be a genuine star. Ever since McKay retired, we have lacked a dashing half-back flanker with good aggression and skill and I think we have now found one in Army.

I have really been impressed with Cloke's performances this year and the other night was no exception. He is very underrated and has been such a good acquisition to the side. Whenever he has the ball, I am always confident he will use it well and his overhead marking is great. Just wait until Kreuzer and Hampson develop and Cloke will play up in the forward line. He was fantastic up forward in the first half against Geelong.

Hampson's performance was impressive as well. Just remember that Judd said Hampson reminds him of Dean Cox in his early stages. Enough said.

Up until half time I thought we had put in perhaps our best half of footy for the year until Geelong's class and experience prevailed. Just remember that we were missing Walker, Houlihan, Jamison, Bower and Thornton was not match fit. When we have our full list available again, I see our defence being fantastic. We have some good talls down back in Bower and Jamison with a good sweeper and user of the ball in Thornton. Throw in dashing defenders Browne, Walker and Armfield and we have the right mix.

We will be a force in a few years.

Con - Lack of communication when your team mate is about to get run down...

Chicken, we are not wrist slashers. Just realists. I don't know how old you are but games like Saturday's display for all the reasons listed by the negative camp on this site that we are not competitive with top sides. For those that watched us rebuild in the late 70's, this group isnt near it and that is what worries me. Some of our young kids have severe deficencies in pace, skill and strength. Murphy- disposal and strength Gibbs- Pace. Then you have at least 4 players who are not finals footballers: Wiggins, Bentick, Fisher, Carrazzo (except backpocket) . I would be ecstatic if I have to eat my words but realistically we are miles off it

Rod Waddell - Post
CON: Fisher. He hasn't got much more to offer. Average kick, Average tackler, Average speed, average turning circle but a beautiful marking 3rd-4th tall and here's the rub................

PRO: We may be able to get a decent trade pick for him.

Agree with your thought Rod about Fisher.
Fisher and Russell should be trade bait end of year.

I don't think too many clubs will be lining up for those 2

Nah lets drop him! he is past it and not the future, we should be playing the kids! He is holding back the Matthew Lodge's and the Bray's!!!!!!!!!

It's a make or break week for the Match Committee........

Sometimes I'd wish that you 'old-farts' would keep up with the times (I'm 31btw). No disrespect but you are comparing our current rebuild with what happened in the 70s? Given the salary cap and draft how is that realistic? - Lets not forget in the 70s we could recruit mature bodied players from interstate that could often be ready to play (not to mention the game was physically less demanding back then).

I wont disagree with you on bentick/carazzo as I dont think we should have both in the team at once. Fisher should be played closer to goal (where he averages 2-3shots on goal/game+a couple of goal assists) but due to necessity is playing up the ground. Wiggins provides hardness at a contest atm that we would otherwise lack.

Assuming you are correct in all 4 though, who would you play next week instead? (bearing in mind the age/experience/body of the players coming in).

"games like Saturday's display for all the reasons listed by the negative camp on this site that we are not competitive with top sides"

Seriously? No shit. But then who on here seriously believed we were a top side? Think about it. My analysis of the make up of our team would indicate that we are 2-3 seasons away from being a top side. If you can accept that, then what are you slashing your wrists for?

Coaching/Game plan? - where was the criticism throughout the wins? Are you saying you havent been able to see any development throughout this season when compared to previous ones?

..and all this talk about Murphy's disposal being rubbish is rubbish.

He takes more of a risk with his kicks. Possibly under instructions. Trying to get the game going forward. Last couple of games he has missed fev a few times but i wouldnt go as far as saying his kicking is no good. He is just having rough patch like he did pre season with his goal kicking. He worked on that and fixed it. With an open forward line he would not have a problem hitting forwards.

Agree with alot of what you say 4th chicken but there are still some bad habits from senior players who should know better like Scotland and Stevens. Scotland continues to to hold onto the ball for too long and is selfish-theres no two ways about it. Stevens is never going to be hard at the ball but why cant he chase like his life depended on it? I think we are a better side than last yea, I dont care what ther ladder says or other people, there is cause for hope with players like Grigg, Armfield, Browne, Hampson, Jamo, Bower, to add to players like Simmo,Walker, Murphy, Gibbs, Waite, Betts, Kreuzer. These guys arent duds, they can play, whether Ratten is able to meld them into a great team is the great unknown to state the obvious.

The point is I feel a lot more confident in these guys running around than blokes like Morrell, Norman Sporn, Livingston, Clarke, Bowyer, Johnston, Mcgrath, Chambers,Longmuir, Prendergast, McClaren et al, all who were running around 2-3 seasons ago.

Sadly players like Hartlett have not come on and others like Fisher and Russell continues to frustrate. This season is also the first I reckon where a full on commitment to intensive player development is occurring. Someone made a comment about why is it that Cwood players can fit into the senior side without missing beat and that has plenty to do with their development program that is second to none.

I agree to an extent - I'd be quite prepared to trade one of the two at the end of the season for a mid range draft pick (2nd rounder)+a seasoned body. My preference would be to retain scotland - for mine he is more consistent, has played defensive roles adequately in the past and has no real injury history (as opposed to stevens neck). By 09 many of your youngsters will be getting to the stage where they are more able to physically compete adequately (murphy, russell, etc).

I dont think we could afford to trade both though and despite their flaws there is no way we should consider dropping either player this season though.

You are probably right 4th but my comments earlier in the thread are about playing him permanent half-back when there isnt a good match-up for him (read as he is getting beaten). My view is if he isn't in full midfield rotation and we use him as the sweeper in defence only, there will be opponents where we can't hide him against the good teams.

In the end his 150th is coming up and he'll play, I just question whether that role suits him and our list going forward.

ps Where are chickens 1 through 3?

he has a kicking action where he tilts side on and punches the ball, it's a bit hook footed and not copy book, but it means he can hit bullets long, direct and at pretty decent angles. Unfortunately when he fluffs a kick, it stands out and can go a long way in the wrong direction. But it's a good kick who isn't kicking perfectly all the time. It's a bit like Travis Johnson, he's a sensational kick, but often butchers the ball, whereas someone like Shaun Grigg has become reasonably efficient in his kicking but he lacks the ability to kick long hard and accurately like Murph and Johnson can. I'd be always willing to cut a guy slack when he burns it a bit if the quality of the kicks he nails really hurt the opposition.

Do you think that Armfield should get the nomination for the Rising Star this week? I think so yes ....

Unfortunately he is too old and some Magpie dude won it.

PROS

Judd (a real pro)
Setanta (did the job on Hawkins and linked well; should take more risks like Bower)
Gibbs (really put his head down and showed poise/class)
Grigg (that's 2 good ones in a row)
Armfield (he is the future. tough, fearless, fast and a line breaker)
Bower (showed no fear and covered his man well)
Bentick (someone whose got the balls to challenge the aggressive Cats)
Simpson (never say die and great attack on the ball and man)
Fevola (looked like he was going to tear Scarlett a new one.Pity he had limited opportunities)
Cloke (what a giant heart, and looked really dangerous in the FF line and HF line)
Browne (whilst not too classy, at least he put his head over the ball and attacked the opposition)

Kreuzer and Hampson will learn where they have to get to, and got some miles and hard training under their belt.

The above are my best, and the others who had high possessions in Carrazzo, Stevens and Scotto, whilst commended, I expected more from them as seasoned campaigners with mature bodies. It was tough though and traffic was going one way a fair bit.

We know where we are heading and where we'll be in 2010-11.

We have mastered 'tempo' footy and can play keepings off. Will serve us well in vital games in the future, let alone stemming the bleeding.

Cloke looks good as a FP or even CHF. I thought he moves well in his current lean shape.

Glad it was only Bower with a serious injury. At stages during the first half I thought Simmo and Murphy were goners too.

We played with Walker, Jamison, Waite, Bannister, Hadley and Houlihan missing. I would have played all 6 them in place of 6 who played.

I'm looking forward to see Anderson join Armfield in the ones....and the missing (speed) link Benjamin (still has to show something).

CONS

In 2008, we are too small and too weak for these seasoned Cats; the competition leaders

our backline had no options to kick to, hence Scotland running around looking for options. Scotto could have been more aggressive as a leader.

Sad to see Stevens also lost for options. Yes he could have played a more aggressive role as a leader.

Fisher's role as a linkman on the wing earns possessions but robs us of his most dangerous role.

Bower's injury.

Murphy's awareness in the last 2 weeks. Jesus!!!

Wiggins and Russell's position (comparing him to Armfield's talent at pick 46) in the team has been challenged to say the least. I would add them to Saddo, Blackwell's name for consideration at this stage.

Running the ball out is an issue. I can't see the plan. I'm not sure there is one that we can follow, and as a result the forwards are chasing kicks/ defending upfield.

We need marking midfielders like Waite to link up. We need our rucks to present mismatches around the ground and take more contested marks (I hope that comes when they are older)

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue