Synbad wrote:



Totally agree re kick in issues. Case in point was during the Geelong game when Armfield was given the kick in after a Geelong behind. No senior player came to his aid. NO ONE in our backline gave him an option nor did anyone from further up the field provide him with an option to kick to. In short NO ONE DEMANDED the ball....

The guy was left with no choice but to kick to a contest where the blues were horribly outnumbered (due to players being static) and yet another forward fifty entry for Geelong resulted.

Basic stuff and yet not one senior player showed leadership to help him out!!

Now i bet the hard ball bets stats read almost like that with Judd...

So basically the gameplan right now is Judd and Fev...

well youre never going to win too many games with TWO players from a possible 22 man line up doing all the work!!!

So the question is.........


............ whats the gameplan for sustainability????


...................................... its obvious currenty it revolves around TWO men.....


Both have been hammered...

But logic tells you its about working in coheson over 22 players with players running and knowing where to run and linking up etc...sharing the work load...

Now.... its no coincidence that the major stats include these two men... theyre our best two... and the coach would be trying to work them into a game... which makes the whole thing way too predictable for the oposition coaches.. and those two bokes are going to be worn down and murdered....


BUT.. if were not getting the simple things going...???

like the kick outs....

and the blocks and shephersds to create space and options....

..... and were doing it on the backs of those two.... thats a flower huge worry!!!

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see.. we have the wrong types in leadership spots still....

if they cant take ownership of a young defence and the kickouts... whats the good of Stevens and Scotty????

And if Ratts cant address that situation .. when its a dead ball.. and noones tackiling anyone till the kick is made.. how the flower hell is he addressing situations in general play with tackles and pressure coming from an opposition???

Judd and Fev cabt do EVERYTHING!!!

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I agree Synbad...

Don't get me started on Stevens though....

I am still shaking my head in disbelief that he simply ignored helping Bower after he went down with an injury to his wrist. Bower then has to stand the mark against a Geelong player when he can barely stand up himself and stevens just stands back and watches. DISGRACEFUL!!

its ok for some of these blokes to out their hand out for money... but you need to give value....

and if you were desperate for the top on field job like stevens was over judd.... you must put in...!!!!.. like judd does...

now ratten should be managing some of this rubbish thats coming from players... and if it means a bentick/wiggo/pfeifer or stevens gets the chop into the Bullants.. it shoud be Stevo...

Because part of growing and coaching is discpline... and if Ratts is afraid to make an example because he thinks he has to be soft after Pagans reign he is just as bad.. except hes going the other way..

... stevo and co should be made to stand up and apologise to bower in front of their team mates... and PROVE themseles....

Footy is a hard game...

being succesful is even harder.......

and Ratts will find that out if he has no answers....

2 year contract and the cheapest coach in the competition leaves him little room .. and not having the basics down pat till this point is not good...

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I guess what you're saying Synbad is that it is kind of like Pettifer and Bowden at Richmond... if you don't contribute, and if you don't do the team things, then no matter who you are you should be dropped?

Fully agree on the kicking out by the way... I nearly have a coronary every time I watch Setanta doing it. And he shouldn't have to do it!

Synbad wrote.

We have a couple of problems,.

First is the on field leadership (apart from Judd).. youd think Scotland Simmo or Stevens would be taking the kick ins and not leaving it for a kid or the Irishman...
But thats something thats sorted out early in pre season.... not something thats up in the air 10 weeks into the season proper... its just so basic.


Funny how you want the irishman to be FB and yet not have the responsibility for kick in? I think that we have had 4 of our 6 defenders injured so far this year and maybe the set plays from kick in that was drilled in the pre season have changed because most of the players have?


Secondly the blocking and the shepherding and voice is a REAL concern...

I agree, but when it's boys vs men out there, don't expect the boys to win the battle. Judd said at the start of the year it would tack 2 or 3 years to understand each other and what your teammate is about to do. This anticipation is why the top teams block and shepard so effectively, it is not the basics, but a well drilled skill that takes time to develop.

and thirdly after Fev who is our second leading goalkicker and how many???

We traded our CHF for Judd (very good move) and Hartlett has been injured again so the development of our forward line has been hindered a little. He has rested Cloke and Kruiser in there to try to add something different. He has tried Carlos there and edwards has been given a go. It's very easy to say fix the forward line, but how about telling us how you would do it.

These are things you must have ironed out early....and havent been..

But if youre failing in those things how are you going to organise a game plan to improve the side properly overall???

Impossible...

All I hear is someone ranting and raving about a poor game without looking at the team for what it is and where it has come from.
I bet you didn't criticize Geelong last week after they put up an effort worse than Carltons did you.

Steve...???

i wont get too far into your post because ill just brush it off with how simplistic it is....with ust your fist argument.
"Funny how you want Setanta to play fullback but not kick in"

Well if thats not the most ARCHAIC post ive read on here followed by a whole heap of nonsense ill go HE!!!

The fullback kicks out????

This is not the seventies Steve.. this is 2008.. heading towards 2010...You dont have a long grey beard do you Rip???


Blocking and shepherding is a well drilled skilled and takes time to develop???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????




yeah ok......

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Not since the Southby days has the Full Back been the designated kicker in
Look at Richmond Chris Newman almost every time takes the kick out.

Compare this to Carlton and I’ve seen the following guys take the kicks out on occasions:
Waite (one of the worst kicks in the league…unforgivable that he has even done it once)
Irish
Gibbs
Scotland
Judd
Stevens.

No structure and no wonder we can never clear the ball from our defensive 50 meter arc.

I must say that I thought I noticed that the recent strategy with kick ins has been to bring the ball back as quickly as possible which has meant whoever is closest to achieving that objective has kicked the ball in.

Have I got this wrong?

Silly strategy if thats the case because it means anyone may be kicking in and we arent trusting our kick in set ups.....


If you do that ... unless you have something pre meditated and functional its ridiculous and just proves there is a lack of planning.

We havent done much with our ick ins this year.... and to have anyone kicking in on the fly and you still cant move the ball effectively it just means you have no idea and no confidence in a proper setup planning...



but youre right.. thats what it seems like....

which is terrible and random as well as so far ineffective..

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My assumption is that the strategy is to get the ball back into play before the opposition have a chance to set up a zone. If a designated kicker needs time to get to the ball to kick it in then the opposition has time to set up. It is not working at the moment.

What was our kick in tactic when Pagan was in charge

Who was providing the blocks over the past 5 years

who was our other target up forward over the last 5 years

What was our game plan that lead to us getting thumped by 10 goals plus every 4th game

We got rid of Kouta , Lance , Lappin , Kennedy and Maclaren
brought in Kruez - Brown - Armfield - HAdley and JUDD

Surely the rest of the team would have been so well drilled in kick outs under 5 years of Pagan that all Ratts had to do was refine them a bit

- You speaking out your butt again Synners and like most things you come out with you will be proved wrong - it just takes time

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We need someone who can kick it well. Is Josh Hunt available?

Tried with Gibbs at the start of the season but he is not experienced enough and made a few errors.

Would be good to get a plan for kick outs though.

Who knows maybe there is a plan that differs from what you had in mind.

In the end a good game plan comes down to players knowing when to roll the dice. When to say "hey we are going to win this ball. I am going to run forward to space" and when to say "hey this is looking doubtful that we are going to win the ball. I am going to go with my man goalside. If we win it i will break wide for a chip pass." Generally teams with good strong backlines are more confident to roll the dice and break to space when the ball is not yet won.

Experience is the only way you can get better at it. At the minute we dont have a lot of experience.

Not a mountain of planning has gone into our kick ins-
not a mountain of planning has gone into our forward structure
Not a mountain ofplanning has gone into teaching the boys how to tackle properly (Gibbs and Betts are the two slightest in the team but are arguably ouir best tacklers- so that should prove all the crap about strong bodies to rest)
Not a mountain of thought has gone into our team selections
Not a mountain of planning has gone into shepharding or blocking for Juddy (we cant just rely on Hadley to do it all when he plays)

Its OK for Ratts to be learning on the job, but these things are absolute non negotiables.

actually i thought that Armfield provided the kick in of the night when he hit a target outside 50, but unfortunately he stepped on the line and it was called back for a ball up in the square .... am i mistaken? was this someone else?

Does Armfield kick in for the bullants?

We were very lucky against the Dockers as they had 1 behind to 3/4 time & only 4 for the match.

Teams normally kick fairly accurately against us which also opens up another can of worms

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They kick accurately against us most of the time because they own the corridor

(Gibbs and Betts are the two slightest in the team but are arguably ouir best tacklers- so that should prove all the crap about strong bodies to rest) - now Josh, I understand you are unhappy, but tell me why most coaches including Matthews and Thompson talk about bigger bodies?

Why did Thompson 2/3 years ago mention he felt that Geelong would be at their peak (because of age, he mention NO other factor) this year and 2009.

Why did Malthouse mention the ave age of the Lions after the GF losses?

Why did Eade mention the need for the Bullies to MATURE before they would be ready (something that has happened with time and the acquisition of Acker, Welsh and Hudson).

Now this is not to say Ratts its getting it right, fact is I am pulling my hair out at times too but that does not mean that the age/size difference doesn't mean anything - look at the past flag winners, check their average age.

Check ours.

2 more years yet before we approach the window.

Add in the fact that three of our senior players are Stevens, Scotland and Houla and you have a recipe for disaster.

I think the kids have done well despite having Judd, Cloke, Fev and daylight between them and the big bodies of the opposition.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

See josh????

we do agree sometimes...

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