Some supporters become carnovore's after a loss.

Just extraordinary how bad some people get when bagging players and from today, our new coach after his alleged dislike of the Irish boys.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

so like 2 or 3 other people have asked, how about offering an alternative instead of repeating the same crap... and thats what this thread is, crap. Bentick may not be a first-teamer in years to come, but I'm yet to see someone better come in at the moment... so if you can, please enlighten us.

For what it is worth I think Bentick has been doing his job, not the best, but not the worst.... I can think of 3 or 4 players who should be dropped before him, and one of them is Scotland, is there any other player in the league who sells his team-mates out with the majority of his posessions as Scotland does?

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The AFL equalisation policy (designed with StKilda firmly in mind) is the only reason they exist.

So STATS LIE............

Then you say Bentick can't kick more than 30 meters yet you list Pfieffer,Joseph and Anderson who cannot hit targets as the alternatives

Oh Stevens is no good, Scotland is crap and that Judd bloke what's he done.

Geez this site iritates me on how fickle and stupid people have become

gee....i haven't heard that one before

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"You don’t get much more Navy Blue than Stephen Kernahan" - Marc Murphy

I agree about the fickle fans, especially after what i considered a pretty admirable loss (stronger, more experienced opposition that we lost to by an extra 14 goals last season).

But Scotland IS crap, I know he is better than the alternatives and provides some guidance for the younger guys (he has played in a grand final before, thats the pinnacle for a Collingwood player)... but his disposal more often than not sells his team-mates out, and its annoying to watch.

Back to the fickle supporters, we are 3-5... look at our list and where we are at, how can anyone really expect any better? i thought the general consensus on here was this year was a development year....

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The AFL equalisation policy (designed with StKilda firmly in mind) is the only reason they exist.

I agree, Scotland is crap. His chasing and tackling is pathetic. He's 28 this year and he's not a key player, we should trade him.

Because he gives it everything and is courageous unlike a few on our list who can run and kick but take their eyes off the footy to protect themselves
Unfortunately particularly at the dome the most important thing in todays footy is running and kicking(moving the footy quickly)

Bentick will never do that

Coaches don't necessarily look at possessions or uncontested marks as stats to hang your hat on, but clearences and contested possessions, tackles and goal assists and effective disposals are the KPIs for teams and individuals to strive for.

Hard to argue with any of these when it comes to AB.

Stats lie apparently? well what about a top 8 B&F finish?

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Agree with some of that keogh, but quick movement of the footy does not always equal fast running and kicking. It is all about moving the ball on quickly to a moving target, and running in waves, whilst still being able to flood back if there is a turn-over. It's not that we don't have enough leg-speed, we just don't move the ball quick enough and create space to run into.

Look at Geelong, hardly a quick player other than Wojinski and Ablett but move the ball end to end faster than anyone. It probably helps having a running defender like Scarlett lauching attacking moves, but we have one in the making already with Bower

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"If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself" - Henry Ford

Geelong a re the best field kicking team

Agree there not quick but their kicking and field positioning is what sets them apart and thats why the ball moves quickly

Listen we can do it your way and back slap a whole heap of triers in our side or YOU CAN FACE REALITY AND BUILD A LIST THAT MIGHT WIN YOU A PREMIERSHIP. Bentick is not good enough to play in the midfield in a top side. Yes he is a reasonable footballer but he is not going take us into the top echelon so in my view play another kid who is more likely to get us there and what is more even though Pfeiffer, Andersen's disposal might be suspect they are at least quicker than Bentick and you can not make full assessments of their play when they have only played 4 or 5 senior games. We know what bentick's got to give and it may be admirable but it will not lead us to the top 4. So why play him. To back up my arguement Hawthorn made very hard calls in 2004/5 and traded players who were not going to move them forward: Hay,Rawlings et al. Look where they are!!!

Flower Hawthorn!! I couldn't give a stuff what they do. I'm sick of hearing about how they turned the list over in 2004/05 like it's the only way to be successful. Who can prove that it will work for us?? I'm not entirely sure, but I'd be betting that we have had the highest turnover of players over the last 4 years, so how about we try to settle the list and create a TEAM??

How about we concentrate on doing our own thing and try to become innovative?? Or are we just going to follow everyone else like a bunch of sheep??

If you like the Hawthorn model so much, go and support them instead

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"If everyone is moving forward together, then success takes care of itself" - Henry Ford

I do support the Hawthorn model of building a football club, which is ruthless and honest about building a list that can win a flag. We have only made the cuts we had to make. Harder decisions are to come. I don't know how old you are but I remember in the mid 80's when we let a bunch of premiership players go to stkilda because they had given the CFC their best. Maybe we need a little bit more of that hunger and ruthlessness back at selection. Last week we took all the soft options

I've haven't been a fan of Bentick over the years but thought I saw enough on Saturday to consider jumping on his bandwagon. Ouch...

Hear, hear!! Exactly Why are we being compared to Hawthorn, Freo, Geelong and others as future models for success- our time will come when we are settled as a club and as a team!

Welcome aboard. I'm the captain, just make sure there's enough room for everyone else, I think the coach will be joining us soon. He's been a little slow to catch on. But - better late than never.

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Sorry, MJ, I don't agree with your assertion about Hawthorn. For a start, let me repeat the boring mantra- we were hamstrung by Black Friday of 2002 and a dodo coach who refused to blood youngsters until it was too late. Also, Pagan chopped and changed at the selection table and on the ground which made any aspiring footballer for the Blues nervous and unsure about their abilities and their futures. In the last 18 months, Carlton have had a stability which didn't exist for 7-8 years, firstly, at admin, board and sponsorship level. This steadiness about our future as a club is slowly being translated onto the playing field- there is an optimism because we, as a club, know exactly where we are at and we are developing- we couldn't say that for the last 5-6 years because we were shite. We didn't and don't have the luxury Hawthorn had; they had a core of some good senior players who were still young and which they could add to. As MIL has pointed out, we've turned over the list so often, we need to see where they are at; hence, our progress will be slow but sure. Because, the players will believe they are playing for Carlton, and not for self-preservation (which stunts your growth, BTW)... BTW, MJ, every club is building a list to win a premiership- the difference is in the tools and the philosophies and so on....