This is year 2....

BTW.. in my very humble opinion...
Its not about kicking it ong or overposessing.. its about taking the right choices...in whatever situation youre in...

Do you have any clue about how many times we handball to the bloke stand still besides the bloke that has the ball?
Why do we cut back inside the backline and kick it back into the corridor time and timne again... often resulting in turnovers that lead to direct goals??
Its a coaching initiative that is failing.

Wait cant kick it back inside.... nor can most of the guys kicking it back inside cos they cant kick under pressure to begin with.

If youre only 2 options to play a game of football is either kick it long to the opposition .. or kick it short back inside or overpossess till you lose the ball youre in trouble arent you???

Its about setups...!!!.. isnt it???
Plaeyers need to knowwhere to position themselves short or long for us to gain the advantage in the setup...

Right now its all wrong...

We probably handle the ball more times than any other team in the AFL... and we probably have the wrong players handling the ball more often...

So its Rattens job to teach tgem its not a case of keeping possession or kicking it long...
Its a case of controlling a game.. with more than two strings (or one) to your bow.. isnt it??

The game isnt simple anymore.... !!!

Youre telling me they spent all summer 'going to school' just to chip the ball around???

Get real!!!!

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Wosha

I agree with every point you make.

Synbad, the appointed Ratts as senior coach with Braddles and Diesel as assistants of some sort i kinda get the feeling that these old players and the old players behind the scenes wanna be involved. If the club had appointed just say John Worsfold, Damien Hardwick or Guy Mckenna that the likes of Brown, Sticks, Braddles and Diesel would have not much input in the football department.

It was mentioned how Ratts did not like Diesel's comments in Mike Sheehans article now in any other scenario at any other club no part time assistant would come out and say those things under any other coach.

I appreciate the help these guys have contributed but there's something about this jobs for the old boys approach i am uncomfortable with.

Apparently.. according to some there are only two ways a team can play footy...

Kick the ball long.... overpossess...

Sophisticated lot of footy thinkers....

Football is becoming like soccer.... its about matchups and setupos.. triangles... and whatever else..

A good side.. one that will win something in the future must be capable of understanding the game...

Currently we have too many players that have no clue about the game....or the skills to execute a game...

Now that falls with the coach....

When player Ahas the ball in this position.. players BCDEFGGIJKLMNOP must understand what THEIR OPTIONS are to give player A an option....

Carrazzo gets a heap of the ball because opposition coaches dont worry about the hurt factor....

BUT.. if Carrazzo can get a heap of the ball... he must have options to execute the ball to our advantage....so you work on that.. Carrazzo doesnt have the skill of a McLeod so he cant pretend to be McLeod and do what McLeod does.....

So the trick is ... how do you set up to use what we have at OUR disposal.. and not follow a simplistic gameplan where one guy gets the ball and holds it over his head......hich means somthing simple....and ususlly after the second time you do it the opposition coach and players have a handle of what youre trying to do.

You see....???..... were not the only team gifted with a brain out there...

If youre not resourceful and inovative you would still be eating raw meat and using the oxen to plough your fields....


The overpossession alone has been done to death..were years behind .....

So what do we do to be innovative and resourceful enough to play the games effectively on our terms???

Well thats the job of the match committee and coaching staff...

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Did you apply for the vacant coaches position last year....your talents are wasted here.

i use my talents elsewhere.....

there is only one of me.....

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Anymore and the world would implode....use your powers wisely

no argfument with what i said tho right??.. just that i said it????

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Its because the players aren't well enough drilled on it yet, its only been 8 games. They aren't always running past when they should be. The player with the ball most of the time is doing the right thing by looking for the handball.

Thats why Ackland got caught out Sat night.

Its why Paul Bower looked like a fish lost at sea earlier in the season, but as the run has improved he's looked better.

It'll come to us. By seasons end we'll be much better at executing the game plan, our run and carry will be much improved and the coaching staff will look better for it.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

The possession thing came in as a way to beat the flood. Suck players into play that would otherwise be running to the other end of the ground to set up a flood. It works well. You are right Synbad we are late to catch on.

I see ratts at faze 1 of the plan and at times it doesnt look good just like Clarksons plan didnt look good in his first year.

Getting young players plenty of touches, to play with confidence and teaching them about the intensity of the game is the go right now.
As they develop into big strong men they can hopefully learn a solid game plan involving some new tricks the AFL has not seen yet and flags then follow.

I think you have jumped the gun on this one Synbad.

I have no doubt we will improve....

Whilst winning is good.. i dont give a rasts arse about winning right now....
What i wanna see is a sustainable and effective pattern of play that is innovated and designed to win games tailored for who we have out on the park..

when we get this right instead of winning one in 4 or 3... we will start winning 2 in 4 and then 3 in 4....and so on....
A pattern of play designed for US WILL translate to sustained winning in future.
Right now were going into most games with some hople compared to previous seasons.. (BUT thats because we have been lucky enough to pick the eyes from the draft system.. (including Judd)...

But we need to be much more innovative to be a side capable of greatness...!!!

kicking the ball inside by guys that cant kick in the first place time and time again wont bring you greatness.. just some wins against teams that are more of a rabble or maybe injured or on the slide...

Hawthorn are clean... and they play to Frabnklin and if he is covered to one or two others to kick a winning score. (ie their strengths)

Fevola has to fight for every kick against 2,3 or 4 defenders....
Surely we have other options we can develop to spread defences and give Fev a chop out AND help ourselves???

a) with the way we move that ball forward...
b) with the forward line setups and personal...

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How uch confidence does Carrots and Scotland need???
How young are they?

How is their confidence pumped up when they get a hot handball back inside...?????
Or kick it back to a hotspot???

Why does holding the ball aloft make you feel more confident???

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Let me put this another way....
ITS OVERKILL.... AND ITS DETRIMENTAL COS THEYRE HAVING TOUCHES BUT THEYRE BREAKING DOWN....!!!

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The other problem touching the ball too many times with little flicks .. apart from losing the ball in dangerous positions is.........they become lazy to run hard and bounce....!!!

Noone is saying you dont do it.. its how much of it youre doing thats the question....

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Melvey said



Who said Broen is on the coaching panel?

If John Worsfold, Damien Hardwick or Guy Mckenna were given the gig, you would probably have Sumich as an assistant, or any one of the ex Essendon* players who used to play with Hardwick or the Collingwood assistants/ex Weagles players who would be assistants if McKenna got the gig.

Ratts played with Braddles and Williams, so it stands to reason that he has an insight into what he wants the players to learn. He is the coach and that is his perogative.

He also worked with Riley as well and has gained his services as well.

No offence to Synners and yourself, but what do you really know about coaching not to mention playing AFL football?

Whilst I know it aint rocket science, don't try to make it as simplistic as what you are talking about.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

DUC.. maybe part of the problem with the fact that AFL has only evolved very little compared to other sports around the world is because they use AFL players as coaches..

Why are AFL players the best people to coach footy teams???
Its the culture isnt it???

Why is Knights better than Neil Craig as a coach????

Well????

In gridiron or basketball often they bring in coaches from colleges...yeah?????

Consider this... for 100 years the game was played the same way till Barassi said "handball"

Then they handballed after 100 years of using the drop kick...
Then we had Dempsey and his 20 marks a game.... someone would get the ball in a mark.. he would go back and Dempsey would fall back into CHB and mark it a million times a year cos he was the tallest guy in the pack..... for 15 years noone thought.... ill kick it to a guy not in the pack and he will kick it AROUND Dempsey...

In 20 years the game would have developed so far that this game would be unrecognisable.. like it or not...

Now im not saying im a better AFL coach or player than Ratten...

Im saying that your job as a coach is to be INNOVATIVE.. or am i mistaken???
You tell me if i dont know what im talking about....

Cos if you think we MUST play a short game.. cos Pagan played the long game.. and theyre the only two things you can so in 2008 going forwards..

You can pick me up on that....

Look footy is iles behind other sports in tactics..

Maybe the problem is cos were choosing only from a pool of ex AFL footballers...
And maybe ex AFL footballers arent the best people to coach with innovation...

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I dont mind scotland and think he is playing pretty well. Carazzo is ok against average teams when he gathers cleanly and dishes it out to the back of a scrum so someone can set up play. I reckon he needs to be replaced by a better version of himself though in time.

Holding the ball aloft is good for your argument but it is meaningless really. They are just killing momentum or in case of the collingwood game killing the last five minutes of each quarter which at the time needed killing. I just laugh when i see them do it as i am sure everyone else does.

Sharing the ball around by hand i believe is a good way to get opposition players out of the game. Like triangles in soccer. It works. West coast started it and cats perfected it. The cats do it and target the dead centre of the ground. Once there they kick long to an open forward line because those otherwise flooding are in the other half where they were trying to tackle and intercept handballs. Helps that all cats have tree trunks for legs so they just stand in the tackles and dish of another handpass.
By the time we are at the top someone will have come up with a counter plan. Bucks always talks about not getting sucked into overcommitting. He is thinking of ways. I am sure ratts is.

For now i dont think it is all doom and gloom. Our young blokes cant be expected to standup in tackles and cant be expected to stick tackles against stronger men. So encourage them to try their best. Let them get heaps of the ball so they can learn to use it as their bodies grow. Drum into them the importance of hard running both ways and let them mature before hitting them with the new big gameplan that is going to change their and our lives.

How many times are we bouncing the ball in the course of a game. compared to other teams..,

Sure you can kick it around but circle work is different out there when there is pressure....

Its not doom or gloom... but we dont understand the game....

Its obvious there are few players who understand the game in our side...

Thats a coaching thing.....


When Waite Russell and Setanta understand the game like Steven Browne.. (who is a natural but hasnt had to be taught the game by a coach) the players will all work together better.....snd winning will come more often...

Right now... some players dont understand how to make space or what option to take when they have the ball....but yes theyre chipping the ball around without purpose at times....

Purpose is important.. and you understand the purpose when you understand what youre doing and that is WHY youre doing it...

Right now its for the sake of it...

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Hate to say this a lot more than you.

I've played footy for a majority of my life later stages at a decent level and gave it up last year due to blowing my knee out + and with my own business just don't have the time

How much footy have you played?? How many training sessions have you trained?? How many coaches have you been coached by DUC

All i said was the reason behind Ratts appointment as senior coach so that his old now influential team mates can have there input. Where as if Wosha or any other non Carlton person was coaching they would not enlist the services of those i mentioned.

I have an issue with jobs for the old boys and a coach who in my eyes is just a yes man.

The Hawks made a great decision to appoint a non hawthorn person as coach. Previously they had so many old hawkers and it wasn't working and made efforts to distance some high hawks from the football department.

Yeah i know what you mean.

Just sounds like i am prepared to give them more time that is all.

I dont think we have the bodies to take on the game and turn momentum our way just yet but we are getting there.

There will be plenty of natural improvement with blokes like Murphy, Gibbs, Kruezer, Walker, Bower, jamison, Judd ,Grigg ,Hampson and Anderson. That should see us climb the ladder a few notches alone.

Education cant be expected to work overnight. Pagan neglected now its up to Ratts. Give him a season at least.

The names above will have to improve more than we imagined and some of the old faces will have to go for us to reach the ultimate goal.

Setanta may be one to go.... he may not.