Fair go. Setanta played on the best forward of the last 5 years and kept him honest and I hardly think his physicality is in question. Infact I think you would find he has been more accountable for his man than Waite this year and personally I don't think Waite is a much better user of the ball. It is Ratten's use and view of Setanta that is more questionable

A big fat zero in the tackles column on Saturday night followed by a big fat zero in the contested marks - I never said Waite was accountable all I said was Setanta and Aisake and Aclkand are big gorrillas that plays like girls -they need to hit the pack and make it hurt - they don't do it - pushing and shoving Lloyd doesn't make you tough.

And once Setanta was moved on Brown Waite had the job of playing lose man and filling the hole and providing the run out of defence .

I trust Ratten at the moment we were a 84 point better side than the last time we played them with a younger playing list

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There is one role and one role only that I think Setanta can do well at AFL level. That is playing one on one against a key forward in defense. I think he's pretty good at this, but its his composure when we're clearing the ball from defense that is the problem and I think at 25 he's nearly out of time. Personally I don't see him as a forward at all.

Can't comment on Aisake cos I know nothin about him

That's the impression I get as well. The time for developing athletes into footballers is gone and we seem to be going back to looking for pure footballers. One area we have struggled this year is our skill level as a lot on our list turn it over to much. I have no doubt a lot of our changes at the end of the year will centre around getting rid of these players and recruiting players who use the ball well especially under pressure.

Sydney Blue has hit the nail on the head ... again.

We all heard about Setanta's love for the physicality but where the hell is it? To me he is softer than Houlihan! I can't remember the last time he flew into a pack, forward or back and made a statement.

His not the most skilled, can't read the play and struggles with the game tempo, all accpetable not playing the game before now and being his size, but if he doesn't have the one bow in his string his supposed to have, then what does that tell you about him getting there?
Ofourse 25-26 years of age and 5 years in the system now don't help.

I think Carlos uses the ball pretty good out of the back half. Stuffed up a couple last week but usually pretty good. No worse that Waite or Simpson. He actually chased one of his mistakes up and won it back for us. Takes more risks and disposes with more drive than Thornton and Jaimison.
He is a good back up for the power forwards. Did better than waite on the weekend. Brown didnt look scared of Carlos but he did seem a little freaked out.

I hope they give Asaike a few goes in the ones before shipping him off.

comparing Setantas disposal with Simpsons is an insault.

More drive then Thornton and Jamison??????

Brown seem freaked out???????

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Freaked because Satanta was behaving not human. Acting all crazy like. I think Brown look worried about setanta's mental health. I said he didnt look scared.

Simpson stuffs up a lot of kicks. Runs like the wind though.

Jaimison and Thornton chip it around. Like they probably should on the last line of defence. More room for error if you take the game on like Setanta does. He plays flat out.

These are my thoughts. Not having a go at anyone in particular.

club if you really mean those comments you're delusional.

Yeah maybe. I dunno.

We should listen to people who aren't in the inner sanctum and observing the players up close on a day to day basis.

Next we'll hear about Chris Bond's coaching credentials if we lose this round.

It only takes one bad game for the experts to come out.

Jamison has shown more at full back than Setanta who was contesting and bumping his opponents, but getting bags of goals kicked on him when the play started.

Setanta was hopeless against Jones who was upgraded off WCE's rookie list and lost him at half back when he snapped that long goal.

What other option does Ratten have if he wants to play possession football, yet he hasn't had any time to stamp his mark on our list and recruit the players to fit his game plan?

Synbad said no to recruiting Mundy who is a good kick of the footy and carries the ball.

You could easily find a spot for him in our best 22.

Trippers.

Jake, ease up on the personal stuff mate. Everyones entitled to their opinion.


Setanta's accuracy in disposal and ability to find a target is quite good. Not perfect but ok IMO.

He hasn't had the chance to settle in one position in all his time at the blues which is poor development.

Unfortunately the writing's on the wall for both Irish boys it seems

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There's so much I could say...

we need as much ruck insurance as possible.

no guarantees of snaring an uncontracted ruckman (esp ahead of melb or bummers). what if hammo becomes a GC17 target (sounds like a chasers stunt)? can't possibly continue to rely on cloke (fierce warrior but unfortunately undersized) ... i won't even bother mentioning the other supposed ruck option.

i'd be confused, and disappointed, if the footy dept were marking aisake's papers already.

we've only just started putting a development system in place. Ok, at the moment it would appear to be a little shambolic, but at least it's an initial step in the right direction. from the outside, it appears aisake, and carlos, have largely spent their carlton careers without a structured development program.

why not rectify this and back ourselves to have it produce results?
why not put as much development and faith in aisake as freo did with sandilands? why not accept that carlos is NOT a forward and continue using him as a tall defender?

we've got plenty of flanker types on the list that we could turn over without causing a ripple in performance. personally, i reckon the club would benefit long-term more from getting an aisake type up to standard than getting a JR type up to standard.

if we are supposedly focussing more on footballers in future drafts then these guys would eventually take the spots of the athletes-who-never-made-it ... but until then we have to teach and develop better, we have to quickly emulate the adelaides of this world.

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... an eagle flew out of the night. he was something to observe, came in close i heard a voice, bending stretching every nerve, had to listen had no choice ...

I'd agree he looks best at fullback or even in the ruck, however we have options to develop for the ruck (Kruezer, Cloke, Hampson, Jacobs, Aisake) and options to develop for the backline (Thornton, Waite, Jaimeson, Austin, Bower) our real problem as a team is lack of tall forwards.

So I guess the issue for Ratten is which comes first, team balance or playing Setanta in a safe position?

I agree Waite and Setanta could both fill the same role in the backline or forward line, but the decision has been publicly made for Waite.

Budzy thats not supposed to be offensive, I don't see why it would be?
But to say his disposal is no worse than Simpsons is just a ludacris comment.
BTW it's not so much his disposal, it's his disposal under pressure. He lacks composure

Give us a break - I'm sure you were asking why we always went the long option the last few years. Ratten's coaching and understanding of the players capabilities is second to none.

Ratten understands Setanta's capability very well, do you not think it would be in his best interest to play him on the key forwards if he was consistently good at it?

The problem Setanta has is he gets caught out too easily. He is not a great body on body player and is outsmarted when played on the last line of defence - that is the reality and unfortunately this has become even clearer since Jamison came into the team and has been able to play the position as required.

Setanta's positives are that he is athletic, has agression, is passionate and his skills are actually not too bad - it's the intuition required to play in one of the Key Positions on the ground that he is missing at the moment.

Lets just back Ratten's ability to develop the team and make your judgements in a year or 2.

This is the best comment regarding Setanta.....

Carlos is all bark at the moment and a large part of it is barking at himself because he get's frustrated.

He wants to be a better footballer but does not have the instinct to be better.

The only way Carlos will make it a an AFL level is to put that aggression into hitting packs hard. Waite, Bower and Setanta are loose defenders, the only problem is that Carlos does not read the ball as well as other players.

He reacts slowly to forwards because he is not instinctual. Unless he can fill in a hole and get hit a few times he will not make it. I don't think he will be there well beyond next year.

i highly doubt that aisake will play a game, and setana has been pretty dissapointing this year. i say give him a chance and get rid of aisake..

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I think you hit the nail on the head Blue70. The key word for me is ituition... or lack thereof. It's the natural understanding of the game that you get growing up playing and watching the game over many years that he obviously doesn't have. He has little composure under preasure. Kenelly has learnt it all and looks natural, but Setanta's improvent seems to have stopped for sometime. I hope he makes it, but at the age he is now and the time he's had I doubt he will

Setanta has the next few weeks (until Thornton/Jamieson return from injury) to prove himself and cement a spot.

If he doesn't stand up during this period then you'd think he is finished.

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There is no footy god