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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:48 pm 
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Robert Walls

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BlueLife wrote:
He just doesn't stand up when the going gets tough.


http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php? ... 16%2C+2007

Result: Loss 117pts

Best and Fairest Votes
Ryan Houlihan 25 (maximum possible)

http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php? ... 22%2C+2003

Result: Loss by 124 points This is Carlton's biggest ever loss in the VFL / AFL

Quote:
There were few good players for the Blues but Ryan Houlihan tried hard and gathered a then-career high 31 possessions,
:roll:


Last edited by BlueWorld on Thu May 01, 2008 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:10 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I'll get bagged for this, and he isn't exactly a crumber, but I'd love to see Nick Davis playing for us (not sure of his age though).........he is clearly on the outer at the Swans, straight swap for Houla would do me just fine.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:14 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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kingkerna wrote:
I'll get bagged for this, and he isn't exactly a crumber, but I'd love to see Nick Davis playing for us (not sure of his age though).........he is clearly on the outer at the Swans, straight swap for Houla would do me just fine.


Don't even joke about it.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:17 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Deano Supremo wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
I'll get bagged for this, and he isn't exactly a crumber, but I'd love to see Nick Davis playing for us (not sure of his age though).........he is clearly on the outer at the Swans, straight swap for Houla would do me just fine.


Don't even joke about it.


NICK DAVIS COME 2 SAVIS

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:02 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Blue Sombrero wrote:
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
budzy wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
I think the best crumber in our team is Houlihan. Trouble is, he was being played down back where he is totally unsuited. If one looks at Houla's highlights on Bluetube (and there are many), it becomes obvious where his abilities lie. He is great at running past packs on either side and taking the ball off hands and either drilling it or passing it. He is the best two-sided player in the team to boot.

No way! Intensity levels are rarely at the required level.


I'm with Budzy....his intenstity is crumby and there is more to crumbing than cherry picking ....holding the ball in the forward fifty, applying pressure on rebounding defenders...Rioli is a great chaser and tackler to go with his goalkicking skills, he creates opportunities for others.

You didn't look at the clips above, obviously or you'd have seen his ability to tackle and pressure.
It's OK to hate and bag a player for the sake of it, just as it's ok to like a player for the sake of it.
Feel free.


I did look at the clips.....you probably wish I didnt....here goes...

1. ran onto loose ball
2.ran onto loose ball
3.intercepted poor kick in and ran into open goal
4.snap from hf after handpass from Waite, loose ball get again, Wiggins to Houlihan running into goal

5.left foot snap from hf
6 ball tapped to Houlihan after ruck contest..Right foot snap for goal..
7. Made some reasonable contests which resulted in goals....tick
8/9. last couple were clever enough roved goals where he angled the ball on his boot nicely....

The words you used were tackle and pressure.....not a tackle involved....made some contests that you would expect from any player in a couple of those plays but I wouldnt be calling it pressure.

I'd give you 1/9 as a scorecard for tackling and pressure......he doesnt chase, tackle or apply much pressure at all......

re: Nick Davis for Ryan Houlihan.......be like swapping George Michael for Boy George...

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:10 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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BlueLife wrote:
Houlihan looks a million dollars when the going is good and is close to our most skilled player.

But, I can't count the amount of times I have walked away from a game over the last 6 years when we have been smashed and Houlihan (as a senior player for a lot of that time) was nowhere to be seen in terms of leadership and physical pressure on the opposition. He just doesn't stand up when the going gets tough.

Yep, just no consistancy in high application and intensity.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:11 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Quote:
be like swapping George Michael for Boy George...


So Davis is that much better then Houla then?

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:22 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Blue Sombrero wrote:
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
budzy wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
I think the best crumber in our team is Houlihan. Trouble is, he was being played down back where he is totally unsuited. If one looks at Houla's highlights on Bluetube (and there are many), it becomes obvious where his abilities lie. He is great at running past packs on either side and taking the ball off hands and either drilling it or passing it. He is the best two-sided player in the team to boot.

No way! Intensity levels are rarely at the required level.


I'm with Budzy....his intenstity is crumby and there is more to crumbing than cherry picking ....holding the ball in the forward fifty, applying pressure on rebounding defenders...Rioli is a great chaser and tackler to go with his goalkicking skills, he creates opportunities for others.

You didn't look at the clips above, obviously or you'd have seen his ability to tackle and pressure.
It's OK to hate and bag a player for the sake of it, just as it's ok to like a player for the sake of it.
Feel free.



Don't waste your time arguing with people who only focus on the negative aspects Blue Sombrero. They've been bagging him incessantly since day 1 and every time you respond are giving then yet another opportunity to do what they enjoy. :roll:

I could easily come up with numerous instances of tackling, pressure etc but no doubt they'll come up with some reason to dismiss it and bag him some more as they always do, day in day out, even when he's out injured and hasn't played for several weeks. :roll:

Meanwhile the MC have consistently rated him highly enough to be selected every week (when fit) and top 4 in the B&F! :P


Last edited by BlueWorld on Thu May 01, 2008 5:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:12 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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kingkerna wrote:
Quote:
be like swapping George Michael for Boy George...


So Davis is that much better then Houla then?



No...Nick Davis is being dropped this week according to the papers and George Michaels last hit was at some toilet block in a park where he tried to hit on an undercover policeman...I'd say they are both out of form and going ordinary.... :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:13 pm 
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formerly Yazzamatazz
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Houla is skilled, but he is seriously defficient in the most important area..........The heart region.


David Ellard will be very very handy, and the flashes of AJ i have seen suggest we might have something to work with there...

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Last edited by Lace Out on Fri May 02, 2008 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Bruce Comben
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Houlihan may not be the toughest player on our list but he is not exactly the weakest. Lets give him a go as his great kicking skills is exactly what Rattens game plan requires.

Houlihan seems to cop a fair bit of unwarranted criticism from our supporters. He has played 160 games and he wouldn't have survived if he was a soft as some say.

Lets hope he gets back soon and gives us a boost in experince and much needed sublime kicking skills as our turn overs are just killing us.

Walker is another one who is going to enjoy the new game plan as his running ability will be invaluable to the team.

The future is looking good, Go Blues


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:39 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Good one Elvis. Houla was good when Carlton was good and when Carlton was at rock bottom. So he's injured. but I bet when he gets back he will be the same old Houla doin what he always did, and doin ut pretty bloody well as usuaL. He is one of our major players to get in the finals in the next 2 or 3 years.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:04 am 
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Bruce Doull
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I've only seen Ellard in the pre-season games, but what I saw told me the boy has composure, skill and speed. Been hearing good things about him in the ants, and hope we can make something of him.

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:00 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Elwood Blues1 wrote:
...........made some contests that you would expect from any player in a couple of those plays but I wouldnt be calling it pressure.

I'd give you 1/9 as a scorecard for tackling and pressure......he doesnt chase, tackle or apply much pressure at all......


Those two statements are self negating. You must have almost choked writing the first one.

Of the nine examples, most were classic crumbing goals. What you describe blithely as 'running onto a loose ball', was in fact his ability to read the ball off the pack, in two cases, run through the pack as it was disintegrating around him and run onto the spill. Nobody else in the vicinity comes close to his skill in that regard and are left watching him run into goals. .The others were a combination of good positioning and in one case, good luck to boot.

The one I liked was where he beat two on the wing, including pushing one off the ball and then tackling the second, causing the spill to one of our players and then running to the space, where after the ball spills, he competes one against two again oin the ground, allowing Kouta to get the clearance. He then runs to the contest again and takes the ball off the hands of the pack and kicks the goal. Three involvements in 30 seconds, beating four opponents under pressure and then kicking a classic crumbing goal.

Even when you look at the video you can't help downgrading his efforts.
Listen to the commentors as well. While you were yawning and writing rubbish, they were hailing his fantastic skills and effort.

Take the blinkers off. You hate him and that's all there is to it.

But as I said before, that's OK because you have the right.

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:37 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Right again Blue Sombrero. As has been said before " Houla knockers know flower all about how the game is played out on the field.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:21 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Sombrero wrote:
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
...........made some contests that you would expect from any player in a couple of those plays but I wouldnt be calling it pressure.

I'd give you 1/9 as a scorecard for tackling and pressure......he doesnt chase, tackle or apply much pressure at all......


Those two statements are self negating. You must have almost choked writing the first one.

Of the nine examples, most were classic crumbing goals. What you describe blithely as 'running onto a loose ball', was in fact his ability to read the ball off the pack, in two cases, run through the pack as it was disintegrating around him and run onto the spill. Nobody else in the vicinity comes close to his skill in that regard and are left watching him run into goals. .The others were a combination of good positioning and in one case, good luck to boot.

The one I liked was where he beat two on the wing, including pushing one off the ball and then tackling the second, causing the spill to one of our players and then running to the space, where after the ball spills, he competes one against two again oin the ground, allowing Kouta to get the clearance. He then runs to the contest again and takes the ball off the hands of the pack and kicks the goal. Three involvements in 30 seconds, beating four opponents under pressure and then kicking a classic crumbing goal.

Even when you look at the video you can't help downgrading his efforts.
Listen to the commentors as well. While you were yawning and writing rubbish, they were hailing his fantastic skills and effort.

Take the blinkers off. You hate him and that's all there is to it.

But as I said before, that's OK because you have the right.



What year were these highlights from?


says it all really

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:30 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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BlueWorld wrote:


What's more, he kicked it off his left boot. :shock:


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:38 am 
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Robert Walls

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Quote:
What year were these highlights from?


says it all really


years 2000-2008.

says it all really :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:18 am 
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Bruce Doull
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BlueWorld wrote:
Quote:
What year were these highlights from?


says it all really


years 2000-2008.

says it all really :roll:


how many in 2000-2001 and how many in 2008?

You're the expert on all things Houla, is he better now (not counting injuries obviously) or back in 2000-2001?

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:36 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Give me an Eddie Betts, Davey, Rioli, etc. ahead of a player who has the skill to snap goals, but lacks the legspeed to run down players and lock the ball in our forwardline. Modern small to medium forwards punch well above their weight with their tackling and run down bigger players in their team's forwardline.

Yet they're not as big or as experienced as Houlihan.

I'll take an accountable player with good to very good skills ahead of a downhill skier player with elite footskills every time.

Lenny Hayes or Ryan Houlihan?

Not a tough choice if you look past the flash of a Dale Thomas and want a nuts and bolts footballer who can drag you off the canvas like a Voss. But we'll just be accused of being fickle and not having a clue about how football is played just to bag a player. :? :roll:


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