haha...omg that makes sense now..thx

Pros
JRs best game, did the hard things and is improving
Murph is in great touch

Cons
Threw away a chance to win by butchering easy chances and handing goals to the crows
The gameplan is all tempo and no burst, why hang on to the ball and kick it back and forward across the HBline while players break in front of you until all options are covered and you're called to play on and bomb it long....take the options when they are offer
If Fev doesn't kick a bag we have no plan B
Fev is either on or he is off, he had two or three on him, but he needs to work harder and lead his team mates with his efforts even when things don't go his way. He occasionally tackled well he occasionally didn't bother
Love Clokey's efforts but we were creamed in the ruck contests by two young inexperienced guys
Bower has great dash and is deceptively good overhead but needs to tackle with his body and not just his arms
AB is a great battler, but he is very one paced
terrible luck for Harts, one wonders what the future is. His hammys seem chronic
Meaningless possessions - should be a new stat. uncontested possessions from passes backwards deep in the backline shouldn't count.

This game and the Sydney game later in the year I have earmarked as the real benchmark games for us. We played a strong discipled team and we received the greatest compliment you can get - Neil Graig thought we applied awesome pressure.

The goal difference is a fair reflection of where we stand.
Please... to those impatient fans we really are NOT a top 8 team (yet!) and Adelaide are a genuine 6-8 side so the fact we made so many mistakes and still looked capable of winning for most of the match shows how far we have come. We will get better and as we play together more we will make less mistakes because we will not be so pressured.

I am really excited with our progress - hang in there folks we are only going to get better.

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The glass is neither half full nor half empty. Rather the glass is twice as big than required.

A very sensible post which I agree with. It was more Adelaide lifted to beat us rather than us being rubbish.

i wouldn't read too much into coach post-game rhetoric.

If you were't talking garbage, you'd know I don't live vicariously through this site. The great majority of my posts aren't in the football forums, but in Stuff.

Mostly because the footy forums are filled with tripe like you usually post.

You may go to some matches (I highly doubt you go to them all, or even a majority, given your slant on the team and the matches). Woohoo, give yourself a medal, big fella.

The whole "You live in Sydney therefore know nothing about the game" is as tired as your constnt maudlin bleatings.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

can I apply that to your pre game rhetoric as well?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I love logging onto TC after a loss... just such a place of unbridled optimism and enthusiasm!

To those upset with this loss... consider how important Hadley and Bannister are to this team. They provide the big-bodied midfield options we so desperately require. Without them, our younger blokes just don't have the physical ability to provide four quarters of pressure. That they applied probably 3.5 quarters of pressure speaks volumes for how far most of them have come, particularly as there were the injuries to Hartlett and Thornton which prevented the rotations we may otherwise have been able to put together.

As for those knocking the tempo game. Look... I'd love to run it fast and hard and bang it down the centre too. But then we'd look like us from last year, or Essendon* currently does under Matthew 'Pagan' Knights. We need to play the wings. Why do we need to do this? Have a look at the second quarter (or third?) of the Collingwood game. We worked it down the flanks, then Russell got the ball, tried to square it to Bryce Gibbs at CHF... turnover, and Collingwood toreched us in about 20 seconds for a goal. You have to be a really, really skilled side to play the corridor in modern football. We'll get there, and indeed at times this year I dare say you'll see passages of play where we do it... but overall, we are not going to be able to do it for long passages of play. As for getting rid of tempo footy... well, we'll naturally evolve beyond that too when we get used to sucking up pressure from the opposition, and get more confident in our own ability to control the game. It will happen. Remember, we are in game six of the Ratten era, with the youngest and least experienced list in the league, it won't happen overnight.

As for pros and cons on Saturday:

pro: games into Gibss, Grigg, Bower, Murphy, etc.
cons: Fev's attitude - brings the whole team down

PROs

- Our backline played fairly well - three of them played the entire game - and without Thornton (a better option than Gibbs for Goodwin) managed to maintain the structure.

- Browne looked OK on debut. Looked as though he wanted the footy.

- Russell. If you want him gone, you have to first ask yourself who you want to put in instead. The bloke ticks almost every box - except for execution.

CONs

- Stevens. If you're not going to run like a midfielder, then take your fat arse down to the goalsquare or get off. He was flat-footed for most of the day and continually ran wide of the contest. If that's a fitness thing, then he needs to be disciplined enough to rotate himself more often.

- Fev. Having three blokes on you all day is one thing, but letting them get the advantage by staying put is a completely different kettle of fish. Those other two blokes had opponents all day. Why not play a different role - DO SOMETHING - to break their structure.

- The coaches box. If Stevo and Fev are too selfish/stupid to recognise the situation, then they need to be prodded earlier. Ratts is ultimately accountable, but he only has one pair of eyes. I suspect the other coaches were too busy watching the ball to do their jobs.

Bit of a dog day for all concerned. Its not panic stations just yet though... I just hope that EVERYONE takes it upon themselves to watch the tapes and make the necessary adjustments.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

What are the neccessary adjustments Crusader you seem to have a handle on this footy coaching thing?

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Had some mixed emotions after this game which I thought was a good indication of where the team is at the moment.

If JR had have managed to kick two of his shots at goal I would have thought that it was the best game he played but they were critical misses and the kick into the man on the mark was appalling and wasted his effort to get the shot on goal.

I agree Fev's game wasn't great but I thought the forward line looked really dangerous while Hartlett was providing another option and breaking up the defence. It really showed how much better we are with two KPP up forward (where are you Josh - great game btw). I was shattered when he went down as I thought I was seeing the future presenting itself.

Hadley's non-appearance, along with Bannister's, had a major impact at the stoppages.

Considering that the midfield was getting beaten and that the defence probably had an average of about 15 games - they did okay after Thornton went down.

Three shocking umpiring decisions killed us in the last quarter just when we had a bit of momentum:

1. after we got the first goal Fev took a mark easily inside 50, myself and the others on the 50m arc couldn't believe the umpire let the Crows player on the mark run up to 1.5 metres outside 50 - it was so blatant - Fev should have had a shot from the goalsquare

2. Waite - 'nuff said

3. Crows should not have even got the first goal

_________________
Carlton - Nothing's changed
I still love you, oh, I still love you
Only slightly, only slightly less
Than I used to, my love

All sides play with injuries but had Bannister Walker hadley and houlihan out on Saturday as well as Thorton and Hartlett from about 10 minutes in to first quarter
In particular AW would have been perfect match up for goodwin and certainly another option on burton - look forward to Andrew coming back

Not dissimilar performance to Melbourne game but Adelaide hurt us on the rebound when we made mistakes Melbourne couldnt
Adelaide too strong in the clinches in the contested situations
We are not too far from beating good sides -a bit more experience a bit more poise and we will do it
Pro
Browne a likely type and seems to be able to play a number of positions
Another game into Gibbs Cruise murphy jamison bower grigg - all will learn from mistakes
Got close given Fev and Judd beaten on the day
Cons
Injuries to Hartlett and thorton
No scoreboard pressure when we had our run of the game - kicking for goal worse than last 2 weeks
Work needed to be done on kick outs
Need Hampson fit to contest the ruck
need multiple forward options

I have highlighted the suggestions (based on my own observations) for you above.

If selfish/stupid are too nasty for you, then you could just ask - did the two players singled out play to their maximum capabilities? Did the two players take it upon themselves to provide some kind of spark and inspiration when the game was still within reach?

Try not to get to emotional because i've hammered a couple of blokes who cop it fairly regularly. My observations are based only on my view of the game on Saturday.

I'm not suggesting that either should be dropped or traded or beheaded, I'm just suggesting that neither played to their ultimate capabilities and they need to realise that, against quality sides, games of football are won inside the white line and not on the magnet board. If something is not working, then make a change. If its not working because you're clearly out-matched, then have the courage to say so and ask for suggestions.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

The words do something don't actually mean much.

Fev being triple teamed is more of an indictment on our other forwards as they are given little or no respect from the opposition. Not to mention our Fevcentricity.

None of our playmakers played to their full capabilities, which contributed to why we lost.

Having said that, there were a few things that didn't go our way, which is why we also lost.

Taking out how we totally got smashed in the tap outs and clearances, some costly misses in front of goals - ours and theirs, probably cost us the game, with our playmakers still having ordinary games.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

To the bloke who is doing f*ck all, they ought to mean something.

You're right, we were out-matched in the ruck and we had some costly misses up forward, but we would still have got beat. That game was won mid-way through the third term when Adelaide wrestled the momentum their way. Both sides knew the result at that point.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Pro's

- Undermanned squad took it to a mature and well-drilled side for at least half the game. Not much you can do about the 2nd half, with barely any bench left. Tired kids are gonna have a brain-fade or 2.
- Kids got another game into them, and generally showing some decent progress.


Con's

- We really missed 1AW this week. When T-bird went down, we had to throw Gibbs down there and though he is really getting comfortable in the middle, he's just not a back pocket. Tex would have been a much better option if he was available.
- Shows our lack of depth.
- Hadley and Banno (and now T-bird) big outs.
- Carlos vs Hartlet discussion is over for the time being...

But Crusader you are assuming that I agree that Fev did sweet FA and he didn't.

Whilst he couldn't break the triple team, he at least tried hard to chase and tackle and whilst he didn't grab anyone, his intent was there.

I think we lost the game, when JR kicked it to the man on the mark - that killed our momentum.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

See, it WAS Jordan's fault .








That's what I've been saying for 3 @#$%&! days!

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end of message

It was at that point we lost momentum.

Fev's misses and dropped marks, Grigg's miss, JR's couple of misses - all added up in the end as well as that kick to the man on the mark.

And of course Ray Flowering Chamberlain must also get an honourable mention.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.