I want to know who it was that ignored Andrew Lovett when he played a few games for the Carlton reserves in 2001 (?)

LOL, simply doesn't happen, show me a recruiter who over the space of 3 drafts has not "wasted" at least 1 pick.

Who...Hampson.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Thanks for making your jokes a bit more concrete

We've got an 8 year window that has just opened. We can't afford to sit around and hope that we develop young KPP from future drafts. We need them and need them NOW!! Judd will be gone in 8 or so years and he will be significant in if/how many flags we win.

We need to chuck the cheque book at some big names and I'd start with N.Brown at the toyota centre down the road. He is out of contract this year so we should chuck a very large sum his way to entice him over.

That'd @#$%&! em.

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Oh no - return of the Elliot!

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

All within the rules as used by Ninethmond of course paf. We could fly him over a small island and tell him we would sell it to him for $250k - no problem from where I sit .

At the very least it would raise the wages of Brown and completely stuff em.

C'mon Blues, keep the pressure on - the job's but half finished.

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i think at least 40% of what we see on the park is due to how we develop the kids, not 100% talent.
most kids picked in the top 30-40 in the draft are talented.
work ethic, personality etc... are important but the best teams are excellent at turning potential into performance.
collingwood has been leading the way, geelong, hawthorn & brisbane also have pretty good records.
sure, we need to be able to spot them. but we have been sorely lacking in our ability to teach them.

No - I should be more 'concrete' . I'm just getting paranoid about all those players we traded over-the-odds for...I'm also having visions of another post 95 style crash. As long as we did it cleverly and with finesse. I don't think any of us want to go through all this again another 10 years down the track.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

This is a biased piece of analysis. It just does not reflect the facts and leaves out some successful recruits

Firstly You leave out: Jackson & Jamison, Peiffer, Hadley to conveniently support your arguement. One of them is a KPP backman picked as a Rookie

2004
Russel - agree but know recruiter is going to get them all right

Hartlett- Likely failure coz of his body but don't write him off.

Blackwell- Agree but at pick 40 something wh0 was better

2005
Kennedy - Sorry he is gone because he is good. If he is fit just watch out
Bower- Will make it. He is a regular senior player already.
Edwards- He was ok in his first 2 games

2006
Grigg- Gun Pick and should be in our side every week. I don't know what you are missing. Athletic, Hard, attacking. I would rather Grigg than Houli and Jetta

Austin- Pick number 37 and a KPP backman. Did you watch eny bullants games last year. He was always going to take 2 years. Wait till next year

Andersen at Pick 60 plus was a steal. Sure his kicking could improve but at that pick there are few better

Armfield and Brown to early

Your post is just totally negative assessment of our list.

People can poke shit at Hughes' picks all they want, I certainly don't agree with all of them myself, but if people think just because the media sporns names like the Kreuzer or Gibbs cup that every club arrives on draft day with 1. Matthew Kruezer on their note pads, then they're mistaken. The number 1 choice is a pick like any other. They don't pick themselves and I'm sure if other recruiters were given the choice, there'd be a range of results. Many would have had Ellis as 1 ahead of Murphy, Doddoro had Ryder at 1. If you're going to can him on Jordan Russell, just balance that with the Murphy, Gibbs and Kruezer decisions, because while they're playing well anyone could have picked them, but if they get surpassed then I'm sure you'll all exclaim 'how did he miss Selwood??!'

Haven't I seen this thread before?

Kennedy is gone because he is NO good, if he's a lance franklin or a tom hawkins he would have stayed. The "#4" symbol next to his name lifted up his reputations. He really is a 2nd round pick quality type of player.

Bower is playing because no one else stood up. His awkward running style will not make him a great player.

Wayne Hughes is on notice, he really has done an ordinary job so far.

Agree with most of that. Its far too early to write off Austin and Grigg. Grigg was an all-australian in 06 and had some very good draft numbers especially in sprinting. Joey Anderson had some good numbers too and was a steal at 60. Once his body is right he will be a solid player for us. Bower is improving and has played under 20 games of football and once again its far too early to write him off.

The other thing to remember is that our youth development policy was, prior to this year, almost non-existent. Clubs like Cwood and the Lions were streets ahead of us and now we have 2 full time development coaches we will hopefully see some quicker development from one on one tutoring.

Perhaps those people in 2001-2002 saw the other side of Lovett -that was the reason he was suspended by his club in pre-season and perhaps the reason why he has been in the courts over the last 18 months -

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!

On a more serious note, and this is for the Gilly's, Cazzes of this forum.

Considering a recruiters livelihood is based on how each and every pick goes once they're drafted into a club wouldn't it be also salient that he should have a say on who should be the person/s leading the clubs development programs? Does Hughes have any say?

As a guess, i'd say that over a period of 2-3 years that these kids go through the u16's then u18's etc the recruiters themselves would know how much each of the kids clubs, and therefore coaches, have actually helped them to reach a certain level before being drafted.

Now if your collingwood and get a new head recruiter you're hardly going to be changing the people who head up their development programs, but coming from where we are i would have thought that getting the best possible available through a lengthy interview process. With this interview process headed by a guy that would know more than anybody else at the club who can and can't develop young talent at a positive rate over a period of time.

Now i don't really want to be having a crack at the club, and i may be very wrong here, but why are our 2 development coaches still playing the game in the seconds instead of actually coaching? In todays modern game, how's this possible?

To me the u18 competition has had some wonderful coaches that quite obviously have got the best out of their kids. Paul Hudson from Gippsland, Peter Dean for Bendigo to name a couple. They have the runs on the board in actually teaching young, immature kids how to play the game.

What criteria do you think Carlton used to fill these positions? The only reason i can think of is that we still have a boys club emminent within the football club.

I hope i'm wrong, but from some interesting comments about the O'Hailpins it doesn't bode well when your 2 development coaches are having communication problems with a couple of blokes that have been outstanding citizens for the best part of 5 years.

As much as we can't afford to @#$%&! up the draft pick process we also can't afford to @#$%&! up the process of actually turning the potential into something better.

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!

Teaguey,

Despite what BO would have you believe I am just a mug punter / enthusiast / whatever you'd like to call it, so I will have to defer this question.

I would imagine some recruiters have vastly different backgrounds, teachers, ex-players, TAC coaches, etc... etc... so I imagine some might be in a position to comment on developmen programs and eithers might be less qualified. a NSS comment, but naturally the recruiters should have pinpointed any weaknesses in their game and perhaps could work closely with development coaches in this regard.

As you correctly point out, I think part of a recruiters job is to establish a relationship with TAC coaches/coaching staff and to get some more detailed information about where the kids are at (e.g. playng injured, family problems, skill deficiencies, attitude, etc...).

I agree with you, I'm not convinced we have done enough with respect to development coaches. Teaguey seems to be good start as the Ants coach, but I would have been interedted to see what somebody like Peter Dean (both a hard player with great mental attributes, and TAC coaching experience (was murray not Bendigo)) and/or an Adrian Hickmott....again with TAC coaching experience. HArd nuts who gave 100% week in week out, gave their all for four quarters and never shirked a contest. Of course this may not translate into being good skills coaches, but perhaps one of and somebody else to cover the skills. Or some model among those lines.

You can bet your bottom dollar there are a few people under the micrscope.

Pratts not spending big bucks for no result....

Whats happened even in the last three weeks has put the spotlight on a few different people around the club... not just the recruiters.

In my opinion everybody needs to bring results.

From the coach.. through development...recruiters.. conditioning coaches.. players.. and board members and then through to rank and file employed members of this club.


Nobdy should be feeling too comfortable and i bet noone is...

We have entered a new dawn in this club... one where mediocrity will not be tolerated and nor should it...

20 years ago people would be shitting themselves from the wrath of Wes Lofts is there was this kind of underachieveent.. thats what made us great.
INMO we have been average for too long... I doubt Pratt and Swann will stand for it.. there is too much at stake...

Pratts invested millions.. and as anyone with half a brain knows.. People like Pratt dont spend/invest millions for little yeild... he isnt going to be patient...

The hammer will fall where they believe were not good enough... and that includes all levels .

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Not many key position defenders in there, if any. Amazing.

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre