We can go on along as long as we like that Ratten has not had enough time but he is directly responsible for the following

1. Our players are clearly not fit enough.

1a Our players can not hold or break a tackle.

2. Waite at Center Half Back is baffling for a team that has no Center Half Forward and very few athletic runners

3. Not Selecting O'hailpin is mind boggling. Clearly our only big bodied Gorilla with genuine athleticism. He is our Center Half Back play him there

4. Not appreciating that the game is not an in an under hard ball get contest. Coaching has to revolve around accurate disposal and athletic running. Ratten appears to continue Pagan's old school philosophies. He is
being protected by the fact that he has a better playing list

What's your suggestion then? Sack him

Arm chair coaches...... so you know exactly what is going on, how players behave, who has injuries, who can fully train etc. etc.?

What do you think many Hawks supporters thought of Clarkson a few years ago before they started their rise to be contenders?

No I would definitely let him see out the season and only replace him if Roos, Mathews was available, which is unlikely. However I would be getting the message across now that after three games of this season some of the moves and selections that he has prided himself on are clearly misguided. Additionally, I would want to hear his view on our fitness, tackling, and ball carrying ability. What I want to hear from him is one of the following. a) he has made some mistakes to demonstrate that he has the ability to develop or b) he has not got the facilities to get our side fit enough for AFL. I want the problems addressed in preparation for season 2009. Its too late to start at seasons end. Most importantly I would be pressuring him on list management. Clearly we do not have enough runners/players with adequate disposal skills. Some good players need to go to make way for some runners with good footskills.

The building blocks are in place. Carlton can't get any worse and everyone agrees that they have now assembled some serious talent. No one is old, there are no retirements pending.

Everyone is sick of having patience and we all want to see a win (if not a few), but it will take time. We were never going to win the flag this year anyway, but we are still capable of winning 8-9 games this year.

Several players are underdone and this would go a way towards explaining the fadeouts. Look on the bright side:
1. We have been in winning positions in all three games so far.
2. We have (not yet) been seriously belted.
3. The kids are getting game time and experience.
4. If anything, the failure on field this year has been from the more senior members of the team.

Can we please can the negativity for a while. No one likes losing, but the club has not gone backwards this year. I see a light at the end of a very long tunnel, so start looking and you might see one too....

I am not negative I advocate that Ratten faces his own and the teams shortcomings now so that we are right in 2009. We have been a bottom team for 7 years how much patience do you guys have?

I like Waite settling into CHB. Waite in not a CHF.

Setanta had to be dropped. He or Cloke but cloke has been playing pretty well and can play better in the ruck. Top heavy with them both in the side.
Ratts is will within his right to experiment with the mix until he gets it right.

Our players are not fit enough. Defenitly a worry. Not sure to whether to lay too much blame on ratts for that. If it is his fault i am sure he will learn from his mistake.

Tackling is an issue. Hopefully after a few more pre seasons our younger guys can tackle like Hadley. Takes time to build strength though. Look at the bombers tackling. It was worse than ours.

You may be right about the gameplan or you maybe wrong. Ratts only had a hand in bringing 6 or of the guys on the list. Not his fault that some cant kick well enough to build a gameplan around.

When the blues are up and running we look good. Just have to get more of it into the 100mins.

More dash out of the backline will be enough to get us going. I am sure the club are working on it.

I like Jamo and reckon he has a big future at the club, however, I think Setanta should have been played ahead of him and given the job on Lloyd.

While Jamo did manage to beat Lloyd on a few occasions, more often than not Lloyd would out muscle him. Given that Setanta is 199cm and easily 100kgs, surely he would have been the ideal option?!

_________________
Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Happens when your gun players miss their alot of their pre-season. Waite's ok at CHB but prefer him at CHF, Agree on Setanta, and in and under will always be part of the game despite the changes in the way the game's played. Someone's got to get the pill out. Don't learn that and physically stronger teams will kill you. Ratten's got a big job getting the players to learn again how be intense, passionate and playing for each other for 4 qtrs, a new game plan, hard run and carry, the 1%'ers etc.... Re-building and development should have been done years ago but because of a bad past administration, we're stiill doing it. Alot of scars carried over from the last 6 years that have to be eradicated.

Thought they had been doing more disposal drills and Ohailpin is supposedly not match fit (thought he lost weight and was really unwell during the off season). Hoping with a few more rounds Stevens, Judd etc will show more fitness and Setanta can come back in. Might be time for a few ins though - Russell may need a few weeks back in the reserves.
Honestly, we've been competitve and played well in each game. And game plans take a while to get going.

If you think that the original post (let alone the title) was not negative, then I'd hate to see you get negative.

Carlton are behind where we would all like them to be, but unlike the last couple of years I don't think we have come into the season at our absolute best. Some guys are underdone, some others may be short of fitness. I suspect that the plan was to ensure that we peak sometime in mid to late part of the season. Now that may backfire and our season may be shot by then, but again (I suspect) that we will win more games in the middle to late part of the year than we have in the past.

It's three games into the season. At least wait until half way before you start taking pot shots at the coach and the setup and other things. FWIW I think Ratts is doing an okay job. Plenty of kids getting a go and progress IS being made. Yes, there is a long way to go.

Look at Melbourne. Or Essendon* for that matter. They have to confront the loss of their best and most experienced players over the next 3 years and they are still both shit teams. They will get worse before they get better. We won't.

Good point

The other thing in regards to experienced players is the scum players get to develop/learn from premiership players, Pears and Ryder will learn off Fletcher/Michael, Gumbleton will learn off Lucas/Lloyd. Who do Bower/Jamison learn off? Due to our pathetic list management since 1995 we are lacking in experienced players to guide the youngsters.

Ok - and don't take this as a direct counter-argument - but how are we addressing this?

Playing coaches/development coaches at the reserve level - check

Bigger focus on individualising player development - check

In-game communication from experienced player where we can - check

Coach on the bench who communicates with the box and goes into detail with the players as they rest (within reason) - ???

Finding some reasonable tacticians who are prepared to act as runners (obviously at a much higher salary) so they can answer questions on field if need be - ???

The last one is an extreme idea, but is another way we can invest in our players. Maybe make Teague and Lappin runners with one on the bench at all times?

Just as long as they don't cross the John Barnes line and openly try to direct play, I think we'll be fine.

Apologies if the latter points are on the way or have been instituted.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Ratten has no strategic isnsight. and no wins

Ratts as a runner?

Please Abaddon, I implore you- please tell us exactly what Carlton should be doing (apart from from winning). To be honest with you, I have read some of your posts and your negativity is, well, uncalled for. Yes, I know it's free speech but a bit of solidarity wouldn't go astray, would it?

Haha good get.

I meant Lappin.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I have a mate who's a hawks supporter, he said to me Carlton reminds him of the hawks 2 years ago. I tend to agree. He went on to say they were so frustrated with the style of game they were directed to play, with so much experimenting and lack of consistency but, take a look at them now. I see ourselves in a similar situation as the Hawks. We sit here pulling our hair out trying to work out what's what, just like my mate, the Hawk supporter would do week in week out and now he wouldn't have it any other way.

Everyone goes on about how important it is to run the ball through the corridor. Statistic show The Eagles, Swans and Pies use the wings more than any other team. Eagles and Swans both premiers, and the pies are a well drilled and competitive side going very close over the years. Yeah the corridor opens up teams going into attack, but even quicker back over your head when ball is turned over or cleared out.

I heard Grant Thomas make a great point over the weekend saying everyone harps on about the importance of leg speed. He said its not the leg speed but the speed with which the ball is moved. The guts of the cats midfield Bartel, Kelly, Selwood and Ling are not quick at all. But there movement of the ball is just precise, skillful quick movement with players running to the right spots and creating the quick flow on.

I am not sold on Brett Ratten but nor was my mate the Hawks supporter when Clarko was appointed but look at them now. Its no quick fix, nor do i want it to be. The club has got it right off field and everything is put in place for Ratts to take this list forward without no passengers.

Good post Melveytough and direct, but still supportive and remotely positive? I am patient and loyal, it is important to remember we all love the club and must remain positive..... BUT I CAN'T HELP THINKING.....

* Lack of creative runners who take opponents on in numbers and break the lines from half back (AKA Essendon* last night) worry me

*Lack of skill from foot worries me. We have players that with time will bulk up, improve, become more consitent, get up to AFL pace etc...... BUT have they got the footskills to be a damaging player in a team that wants to win finals.?

*No foreseeable game plan that Ratten is working towards. I'd be happy if I could see a plan and the young kids were not executing it. However over our first 3 games there is no consistent style jumping out that is ours.

*No Young up and Coming CHF and CHB. Even if we draft a couple this year they are a minimum 2-3 years away from contributing, our list has holes that can only be fixed over time....something that supporteres are starting to struggle with!

*If we continue to play the same 3 or 4 midfields in the centre for the entire game (Don't get me wrong, they are great players and played good against Essendin) we are going to get over run in games and lose more last quarters (and probably games) than we win.

On the whole, I'll stick Phat and support with gutso this year. I think we will improve over the year as our team gels. I'll have faith in Ratts as long as I can see a consistent game plan by half way this year...........................BUT, unfortunately if i take an unbiased look our list has some huge holes and too many incomplete (albeit-young and developing) players.

That's just my VIBE.

_________________
It's the vibe.........Tell him he's dreamin' Darryl!

Well if he's not a troll then he's certainly a muppett!