BINGO! To the Duke too.

That's fine, we should be demanding more of our players, but we need to be realistic. Again, no-one is disputing this. I for one demand an improvement next week, and the week after, and so on until I'm satisfied we've reached a level where we can match it with the best. But some people expect us to suddenly become Geelong overnight, and this just ain't gonna happen (hell, look how long it took for them to get their shit together, it takes time). You can't go from being a footballer down on confidence and will to win from years of being pummelled and embarassed, into suddenly becoming the new Johnno Brown, with the flick of a switch.

Demand improvements, yes. But FFS let's be realistic. Its rd2.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

Jeeeeeeez,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I am guessing most of you guys are all from the big Smoke by the way your all stressing and uptight about how the club is playing at the moment . Up here in the outback we're all fairly laid back.

We are only into round 2 guys!!!,,,,,,,,, dont stress,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yet.

As disapointing as what Saturday's game was it could have been just a bad day. But,,,,,if this performance repeats itself over the next 4-5 weeks, then I believe it would be fair enough to say that we have some concerns.

Give the the guys a chance to redeem themselves this weekend. i think they will play a blinder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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BRING BACK PERFORMANCE BASE PAYMENTS !!!

I saw us in a State Of Mediocrity between 2003 and 2007.

I didn't see the bad decisions we made in the Parkin era; neither did he.

I didn't know we were going to have 16 injured seniors (including Kouta) in 2002.

I didn't see the downfall due to the void left when our all conquering seniors from the 80's and 90's retired.

When Pratt took the reigns, there was a reason; to get us out of this State of Mediocrity.

With the recruitment of Swan and Icke, I could see the quality in management improving.

With the sacking of Pagan and the end of Mitchell I saw the bleeding in development stopped.

With the recruitment of Cordy, I knew we had aimed high with our conditioning.

With the recruitment of new Assistant coaches I knew we were more serious about developing our kids; perhaps even fast tracking them.

With the recruitment of proven young premiership playersJ udd and Hadley I knew we were getting A grade players to support and lead the kidsthe kids.

Our off field sponsorships and memberships speak for themselves.

We have been fortunate to snag a few good late draft picks in our dark period: Simmo and Fisher Jamison

We have even been lucky with a few of our rookies: Setanta, Aisake, Carrazzo, Bentick and even Thornton was given the opportunity for promotion with the void left.

We have high draft elite kids on our list and they are bloody good ones: Walker, Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer.

We have some very promising kids on our list making their mark: Bower, Anderson, Grigg, Hampson, Benjamin, Betts, Browne and Armfield.

We have a new board, new mamagemnt, new coaches and a new coach with a new game plan.

We've come along way from the mediocrity we were drowning in pre Pratt.

With that, it was easy to get carried away with the euphoria of an immediate improvement and high expectations.

We weren't to know that we would be carrying underdone players and leaders at that: Judd, Stevens, Hadley, Setanta.

We didn't know that we'd have all our 200+cm listed ruckmen injured at the start of the season: Hampson, Kreuzer, Aisake (and the smaller one Ackland).

Those carrying the most responsibility in leading the kids, whilst we have these problems are playing mediocre footy; we weren't to know that.

Are we accepting mediocrity? On field, in part, yes!

Playing underdone players, alot of them, especially midfielders is not acceptable.

Playing players in the same position all game, who are not in form, like Scotland, Carrazzo, even Houla in the backline (add Bannister, Russell, Betts) and leaving them in the same position is not acceptable.

Yes, we have room for improvement in the mediocrity stakes, but we are NOT going backwards and remaining mediocre, and there are many visible improvements made since Pratt took the reigns which need to be considered to make this argument more balanced.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Hey Outback, are you familiar with the phrase about the horse and a gate?

Round 7 or 8 in too late to address this issue. By then the season's over and we're talking priority picks again

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end of message

We don't need to be talking about priority picks at all Duke.

Synbad said it earlier when he said that footy in the AFL is all about momentum. The actual key for this club is to take momentum (and not more number one draft picks) into 2009. If we get to round 11 with only 2 wins, then we should still be aiming for 8. It won't be a flash in the pan like 2004 was... it will be all about young players having had game plan and learning to adapt to the pressures and rigours of AFL football.

This season for us should be like Hawthorn's 2 years ago. Never good enough to make the finals, but building that platform which will get us into September much sooner rather than later.

Wins are vital this year... no matter what stage of the season they come at. Outback Blue is right... it is only round 2, and the lads have had only 5 months with their new coach. Miracles do happen... but this isn't quite one of them I'm afraid.

I'm not about PP either, Molly. I'm about winning & putting in until you spew. I don't want Fisher, Simpson, Murphy and Judd being the ones who carry this team to its first win of the season.

I think our point has well and truely missed the mark.

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end of message

This thread isn't about "demanding" better performance, because that is not at all a possibility. Even if you walked into the Club this afternoon and started shouting, demanding a better performance, no-one will take you seriously.

It's about "wanting".

And as the Stones sang, "You can't always get what you want".

That's sport. If you choose to support a team in the AFL, you trade a lot of the time not getting what you want for sometimes getting what you want.

Be clear in my message guys, I am talking about the players ACCEPTING mediocrity.

To me the signs in the first two rounds are the same as the last few years. Not enough effort and players giving it their absolute ALL.
It is a VERY bad sign for club when they come out firing and then get blown away, it shows a lack of heart, desire and spirit.
The points I made in the post illustrates that. We have players who don't prepare themselves to the standard required for an AFL club and are not professional enough in their approach.

I am NOT talking about ability but effort!

I remember when Judd arrived players were saying how professional he was wherever he went and only ate and drank the right things.
WHY ARE THEY ALL NOT DOING IT! It should be standard.
The biggest example of this is that our two highest paid players from the past few years do not present themselves at a high enough standard and treat the club with disrespect. Thus being a bad example to others, and they wonder why they weren't made captain. It was bad enough our captain from last year presnted himself in such a bad fashion.

As for people saying it is ONLY round two, we are dishing up the same crap as we have in previous years. I agree that momentum is important and we need to get going for the future.

For the people asking to be positive it needs to be put in perspective. There are a number of positives at the club especially off field and with a number of our kids. BUT, unless we address the problems we cannot effect any more positives. Rememeber positives come from addressing problems not ignoring them.

We have a group of young players at the club with bright futures but they need time to develop. The example shown to them by our senior players will affect their futures.

It will take time to get the right players etc but the we have to demand a professional attitude from anyone wearing the Carlton jumper, otherwise we will get youngsters to the club who believe that near enough is okay!

That's marriage as well.

What is the clubs goals this season, what targets are they trying to achieve.

Alistair Clarkson was very definite that Hawthorn had goals on footy classified and with time frames....he said Jeff Kennett and the CEO whose name escapes me had high expectations and wanted results...

They have urgency and intensity in what they are doing, we dont seem to have urgency even though I think Swann and Pratt are good operators and have shown it by getting Judd to the Blues.

We are not a bottom loser club but play like one, dont chase, dont want the ball enough.....the attitude is its just another loss, we are rebuilding......the kids will see us right. On the field we have lost our Mojo..the ruthless, killer instinct, the self belief, we are the best in the business..its not there....a respectable loss is ok......its not ok.
Some people were happy with a 40 point loss to Stkilda.....and will be with a 50 point loss to Geelong.....excuse being we are not as bad as Melbourne.

CJ is right some of us have accepted CFC being a mediocre club and who celebrate wins like gold and want to hide from embarrassing losses.....

We should have crushed Richmond like the rubbish they are....I wouldnt have been happy with a goal or two win if I was coaching ..much less losing.....

We need to crush Essendon* and tell the football world we are back in town and then do the same to Collingwood..then the word mediocre is reserved for those teams.....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Hey CJ,

I am a LOT happier and more on the page with what you said with your last post.

So... reading between the lines, you have a problem with the attitude and endeavour of Stevens and Fev??? Any others to the list?

In accepting the mediocre attitudes of these players, I 110% agree that the Club is laying the foundation for a lazy player group coming through... the Bowers, Edwards, etc of this world.

Nicely put cj. It's not ALL the player, but most who should know better - don't. And that's the annoying part.

A positive is that Murphy works harder than most and will be a star.

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end of message

Yeah Molly, that's right whilst not aimed directly at those two they are a bad example to the rest of the playing group. When your two highest paid players behave and present themselves like they have what chance has the kids got. For me you can also add Scotland, Houlihan, Thornton etc to the list.

Ackland is another example, after last year how did we not turf him, his efforts were disgraceful.

All I want to see is a team that will give everything for the Carlton jumper. If they do that the wins will come.

I agree with alot of what the op has said, senior players at Carlton seem to accept mediocrity, your houlas your scotlands, your thorntons,your fevolas(like my gary ayres impersonation?), when the going gets tough these blokes go missing and leave the young kids like murph to do all their bloody hard work for em. Then we get guys like Ryan Houlihan come out and say the supporters have to be patient!!!!!! Houlihan have a red hot go instead of pussy footing around the footy ground as you have done all your career and maybe the supporters will get off your back but until our players put in four quarter efforts and compete with the same intensity from go to woh then we'll keep on their backs.

We are Carlton we expect success and at the very least despise mediocrity. Our senior players are mediocre!!

Brilliant Quote Blue Vain finally someone with some sense talking and not bagging there own team. We are one of the youngest lists in the AFL and we need to stop bagging them each week and give them a chance to string some footy together and grows as footballers.

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Blue boy thru and thru

So do we just sit back and keep accepting the same crap that has been dished up to us over the past few years? Is it okay for players of this once great club to just treat us with contempt?

You don't need to play more games to try more!

Ill answer for him
Get rid of
Fevola
Stevens
Houlihan
Scotland along with 6 or 7 others
eg Saddington...........
They simply dont put their body on the line
You cant have passengers anymore
You could a few years ago
Not anymore
And if you think delisting these 4 is crazy watch a tape of Sat nights game to convince you

My mood regarding our performances this year changes daily.Im sure most would agree that at times last year and even this season we have shown the required levels of effort and intensity during games but haven`t been able to maintain it. To me thats encouraging to know we can match it with most sides even though i have been disappointed to lose. Most of our list are yet to play 50 games so consistency will always be a factor but agree that other sides certainly have faster development of their younger players.

..much of the team is complacent.. ..not nearly hungry enough..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..