I think this is the best post and thread full of reasoned argument, for and against in a long time. My thoughts:

1. Yes there is an attitude and fitness problem

2. Fitness takes 2 preasons to really come to the for. I think it it would be good to do a Q & A with the fitness guy on here.

3. Ratten does not appear to command the box. I don't see anything clever in his coaching but he is doing it with kids. In modern football, where it is full time and professional the head coach is the least important input. Recruitment, player leadership, facilities are more important.

4. I will reserve my judgement till next year but giving up Kennedy pick 3 and pick 20 for a star (Judd) who is a shadow of his former self has to be questioned. He needs to have the capacity to reach full fitness to justify the high price we paid for him. I hope he gets there.

Leigh Matthews was on the radio over the weekend discussing modern coaching and the increased quantity of interchange rotations. His comment was that during a game there was very little that can be done by the coach because the matchups are very fluid and no one is on a particluar player with the possible exceptions of FF and FB. A midfield player can be on 8 different opponents in just 1 quarter.

This means that the role that Ratten plays must be looked at during the week, which show that he seems to be able to set the game plan he wants, and early in the game the players follow. However as the game wears on the players start to fall back to the old game plan and forget their instructions. It will take some time to get the players out of old habits I feel, but if the great Matthews can't control/influence what happens on game day, why are people so harsh on Ratts?

Keogh, My thoughts exactly!!

cj69,

If you haven't figured it out by now, you'll eventually see that the the main agenda of this site is to provide a positive spin to assist membership.

Whilst we all can post our individual opinions quite freely, you'll see that anything which might be construed as negative is mostly frowned & trodden upon by the majority of the TC hierarchy and their plebs and the 'negative' poster will be convicted of treason and rubbished mercilessly for eternity.

I agree with your OP and most others will but refrain from publicly saying so in fear of persecution.

I thank God everyday JUDD came to Carlton because if he didn't we have precious few 'senior' players to show our youngsters the intensity and effort required to be successful.

JUDD!!

_________________
There's so much I could say...

He, he, he...

the majority of TC is positive fluffing of the Club.

He, he, he...

He, he, he...

Posting your frustrations on the internet will magically make Carlton WIN!

_________________
|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

I don't care what anyone says, we're becoming Richmond supporters.

_________________
WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

I agree keogh, that is rubbish.

Molly, the different gameplan shouldn't mean a player can't give a 2nd/3rd effort which should be automatic for players who have played over 50 games. You see other teams youngster do it, but for some reason we have many 80+ game players who simply won't chase.

That's not gameplan, that's pathetic! I won't appologise for expecting more from my team when I see the Kangaroos give more in 1 quater then some of our players have given in a fortnight.

_________________
end of message

This is a great article from Robert Walls and I believe everyone including our leaders should read it.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/c ... 12613.html

I'm with you Donstuie...

Richmond supporters

I can’t believe there are so many in here that seem to want to live in a quasi state of denial! How can there be much positive about what is happening at our club at the moment? We appear to be stagnant in our progression. We are spiritless, erratic and lazy on the field. We seem to be unable to do many basics right and aren’t team orientated enough. And yet we’re supposed to be happy??!! FFS!

I realise there are some prospects for the future and the system gives you that without even trying but there needs to be a seismic shift in attitude and application at our club or we will tread aimlessly for another season and I’ll be flower if I am going to sit around feeling cheery about that

Saturday night was almost as bad as some of our super-shellackings from recent years observing that insipid display. Can’t we expect more as supporters?

_________________
C'mon Blueboys!

I fear we're becoming St Kilda supporters *spew*.

_________________
end of message

Nobodies HAPPY with how things are going, but there's a big difference between that and urging patience as opposed to flying off the handle and calling for upheaval after rd 2. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, that's what Richmond supporters do.

_________________
WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

Don, it's not our ability that's in question - we realise we're still behind in that regard, it's the effort that we want.

That doesn't require any extra skill.

Without heart, we still won't succeed even when our skill level improves.

StKilda supporters are happy JUST to see their boys wearing their jumper, or JUST to see them scrape into the 8 - we're not.

_________________
end of message

I'm not in denial in any way that change needs to happen.

But I believe I am observing it (that's contrary to what others say... but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I see change afoot), and I recognise that it won't happen immediately. As I said before, it took St Kilda 15 months with a team that was older and far more experienced. Our guys are not going to 'get it' in the space of one third of that time.

On the Couch last night they discussed why melbourne is struggling. They noted the team had played a different style of footy for 10 years, and that change couldn't happen overnight. To me, the guys who are struggling with the new gameplan are blokes like Scotland... but he's had it drilled in him to play a different style for the past six years. Same with Stevo, Simmo, etc.

I'm not in a state of denial about all this... and as per cj69's original post, I think we have accepted mediocrity. But likewise I see enough evidence that it is turning around to stick with this Club.

Donstuie, we need to be demanding more as supporters AFAIC. There needs to be more vocal criticism. The issue with Saturday night is not about the gap in class between our boys and that of the aints but a clear lack of effort. Our inability or reluctance to run hard (both ways) and create space is either a result of laziness or lack of preparation. And regardless of which one it is, the club needs to be accountable for such shortcomings

_________________
C'mon Blueboys!

What where becoming is a bunch of supporters content with mediocrity. Yep StKilda supporters.
Will be giving our players a standing ovation shortly after a good quarter of football and/or a 5 point loss against Essendon*.

and as I've said before Molly, it's not about gameplan - it's about their desire.

Chasing, tackling, running, 2nd and 3rd efforts.

It doesn't matter what the gameplan, you can still bust your arse for your team mates.

According to many here, that was going to be solved with a new coach - so far it hasn't. I'm hoping that it will change this weekend.

_________________
end of message

all i can say is that on Saturday night, some players clearly did not go when it was their turn to go. That was most un-Carlton-like.

The culture of the club is famous, but I don't believe the playing group at the moment have a culture that conforms to their club's.

_________________
They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues