as Juddy said. enough excuses already...
We didnt play Geelong, or St Kilda, or Hawthorn.
We played Richmond... and we looked that bad...

I understand that you once had 2 children but now have only one - after a recent bath time incident where you were called on to dispose of the contents of the bath - you drank some , threw the rest out and your second child was never seen again.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

save those jokes for your wife old dude... sure she'll laugh.

actually this is what Judd said

'Looking forward to Carlton's season, I'm excited by a new set of challenges. The club is in a rebuilding phase and there's a lot of hype.

Unfortunately, this hype isn't going to help us win games of football — as the loss to Richmond last Thursday night showed. We showed glimpses of how we want to play footy and midway through the second quarter, things were looking good. The challenge now is to go through a whole game like that.'

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

You saw improvemnt?

We lost easily to what was the worst team in the comp last year...

We beat them twice didnt we???
Look... little teeny weeny improvements isnt good enough....everybody is trying to improve...

What bath water???

This team needs to be improving by understanding how to play a game...


Theyre playing football.... there are ways you should be playing the sport and ways you shouldnt be playing the sport....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I've seen improvement in little bursts for the last 3 seasons. its not equaling wins. every team in the league is improving.

We looked super impressive before we ran out of legs.

The way Essendon* played was a ferocious brand of football, not our timid kind. They played as a team, gut running and willing to put in for their team mates. The biggest thing they did was running straight down the corridor on a number of times, not always predictably going to the wing as we did. Very disappointing as a Carlton supporter to see Essendon* playing like they did today. It's early days yet, but whatever improvements we've made over the preseason, every other team seems to have made them also.

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--------------------------------------------------------"The only one that could ever love me..."

Our "possession" game plan enforces our own players to think that this means chip the ball around and dont run and make an option.
Why do we play on 20% of the time when Essendon* today (and I went to the match) played on at EVERY OPPORTUNITY.
Why was their forward line so open for Lloyd when ours is always clogged with 5 players on Fev?
Why was Ryder (a second year player) able to do a purely defensive job and more then hold his own on Edwards, when our second year players still get caught in the headlights?
Why are purely B/B+ players like Dempsey, McVeigh, Nash, Slattery etc RUNNING RUNNING AND RUNNING out a whole game until they are absolutely exhausted, when we have players like Thornton Bower and Hartlett on Thursday night barely raising a sweat.
These are ALL questions for our coaching staff- and quite frankly Ive been hearing excuses for 6 years now.
There is an underlying cancer within our football club that "everything will be alright because we're Carlton." I heard it again all summer that "everything is OK because we got Judd." Well that rational killed us in 2002, it raped us in 2003, in fact it has pervaded this football club every year for the past 7 years.

The most shattering thing about Thursday night was the fact that our players simply gave up. They did not give a flowering shit. And this is something all the calls for patience and calm by some of you on here CANNOT address.

Honestly Synners, what were you expecting from the game? we went into the game without our no 1 ruckman, no 2 forward, walks and a host of midfielders that were underdone as well as Carlos who would have played on Richo if fit. Our bench was full of players that couldn't play a full game which meant that we were never going to sustain 4 quarters of footy.

I got what I expected - a good first half with the expected drop off in the second half for the above reasons.

What I was dissappointed with was the kicking skills, high floaters or kicks that miss their targets. Round 1 I guess, maybe a little rusty - lets see how they go after round 6...

A system is what youre looking for...

We havent had one all preseason or round 1....

Its a flawed gameplan.... and if it doesnt improve you watch whats going to happen...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I agree.

We went in our best players underdone and no ruckmen. Richmond on the other hand had few outs and most of their side coming off a strong preseason. The fact that we faded shouldn't be that big a surprise.

Bring back Bentick, Fisher, Hampson and Kreuzer and get match fitness into Judd, Stevens and Hadley and we're a much better side.

Let's not forget as well that Ratten needs time to implement the new gameplan. No matter how much you drill them in training they still need experience in real game situations. Hawthorn used to play some absolutely appalling footy at times while they were developing but look pretty good now.

There is a lot of people talking, but not many people saying what should we do in this thread.

We were poor on Thursday, there is no way around it.

We need to stick with the players we have and implement the new game plan. We have only been rebuilding for 2 and a bit years. 2005 was our first chance at obtaining elite talent and these players are in their 3rd year now.

I am unsure what the people are suggesting we do who are saying we are stuffed. Do we just give up?

Throw Houlis game into the mix... second year player...

Its their kids....

.. whats wrong with ours???

Is it how we drill em or what we get from the draft???

Now i think everybody is drinking from the same well at draft time.. so what is happening once theyre here???

Ive never heard more excuses in my life.....

"what do u want with Ratts its only 7 games?"

its 6 games.. plus a whole pre season... plus a pre season comp... plus a game.... and it still looks like a dogs breakfast..

yeah we looked ok against Richmod at times....... just ok... but were going to get hammered by alot of sides playing the naive game we play...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

nah but for starters some players have to get up off their arses and run....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

:Essendon* best: McVeigh, Lloyd, Watson, Fletcher, Ramanauskas, Houli, Dempsey

The first 5 names are the old brigade. I absolutely agree our kids need to stand up, but it is the leadership of the Judds, Stevens, Fev, Scotland that we need to lead from the front.

Rocca won the game for the Woods on Sat. He and Richo did what Fev needed to.

Agree, we need to make sure we give everything 100%. There is nothing worse than losing when you haven't tried your guts out.

Our leaders and stars need to lead and show the kids how to do it.

Waite, Fev, Simpson, Fisher etc are the ones who need to lead and bust their guts.

Its all about run. It looked good early on thurs but when we (carazzo and stevens ) gave our lead away we were gone. You could see there was no run left in our legs. They bolted off the ground at half time. Some posters want to bring in more big guys this week ? I think its time to bring in our own dashers in armfield and and Joe. Forget if you think they are not up to it or not. If they can run then bring them in.

On thurs once the they had us rattled the game plan went out the window.
We will improve though. Dont panic. If we dont then its time to bring in some new players.

Run RUn RUnRUn RUn run run


ps Hawks fans and media moaned about Clarksons gameplan in his first year.

We have Waite Simpson Judd Stevens Thornton Fevola Houlihan..Waite..Cloke... etc..

They dont have less young kids in than we do......

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Its pointless arguing with you guys because you want to see everything as equal when it clearly isn't. And you do not wish to consider the other side. Bath water - well gee Synbad try and think what I might mean , I am certain you can, but you don't want to, ranting is far easier.

And Josh I have respect for your opinions but to think its been 7 years is wrong I am afraid. Its been 7 years to get the list right - thats shit I agree, but that is how long it took this stupid club. If we lose patience now we will end up a Richmond, ditching coaches and teams as regularly as some people change hairdos.

If we trust the list we have now got then we must give them time, I think a year (and thats all it is, not 7) is not asking too much.


We are the Hawthorn model not the Essendon* model - and it is a very different model. Add Clarkson and Schwabb - how long did it take them? How long Clarkson before their game plan made sense? Do you remember that game against them in his first year, they played ring a ring a rosie - looked stupid didn't it, and now they are as direct as it gets.

This will take a full year, I suggest you go away for a holiday come back when its over. At the end of this year the game plan will begin (yes begin) to solidify so that under pressure/when fatigued/when there are no options/ it will be this game plan the plays automatically fall into, choosing the options that their teammates will understand because they fall into it to.

How long ago were people asking for Bomber Thompson's head - yet we expect Ratts to gel this group in weeks not years....

The genius of Paul Roos, to me is that if you never rebuild (that horrible phrase) if you never tank ( a worse phrase) then every player is always playing for the team. We have lost that and now we have to work to get it back. It isn't a switch but its integral to team sports.

The scary part is that if you are both right and Ratts isn't the man, or worse, its the club's culture, then we are about to become the new Melbourne. I do not think you are right, I just think you are hasty. I think Ratts will need a lot more time. I think the players will need a lot more time.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!