If it wasn't clear to everyone before it should be clear to everyone now that we aren't going to be shooting up the ladder this year to challange for a final eight position, despite the high upside that our team possesses as the season wears on with Judd, Stevens, Cloke, Setanta and Hadley gradually regaining their matchfitness which was clearly lacking against the Tigers on Thursday.

Now I'm not calling for tanking or any of that stupid nonsense that abounded on these boards last year. What I'm calling for is for the club to make a decision that every player who's clearly not going to be part of our long term future, within reason, should be left in the twos and be never given another opportunity again. These players aren't just the obvious older fringe players like Wiggins, Saddington and Bannister but players who increasingly look like they won't make it at AFL level (such as Blackwell who sadly is too small and slow with poor disposal).

Despite what that idiot Libba thinks playing the kids, knowing that they'll be the ones who carry us into a brighter future, isn't tanking and is the most sensible thing for a club to do when they're in the situation we are in. Carlton isn't going to win the premership, or play finals, so lets work towards the future by giving opportunities to players like Pfeffier, Armfield, Browne, Aisake, and co. The question has to be asked, would Pfeffier have been any worse an option that Bannister against the Tigers, would Deledio have kicked more goals, and does Bannister have more of a future at the club than Darren? My answer to all three is no and sometimes I wonder why the club doesn't think the same way.

Of course that's all easy to say after we lost. Maybe Ratten believed that Pfeffier was slightly underdone, or that Bannister would do a much better job and that a guarenteed victory would be more beneficial to the other players than Pfeffier getting a game. Whatever his reasons, I'm sure he knows more about footy than myself, now that we've lost our opening match and are looking at a bleak month ahead prehaps we should finally start paying more than lipservice to the youth policy were meant to have and actually play the kids instead of letting them rot in the VFL. It's harsh on players like Wiggins and Bannister who are, by all reports, great clubman but we need to look to the future and they just aren't it.

Save it for trade week Andain, it's Round 1.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

The season is far from over but playing kids instead of playing a player who isn't going to make it isn't hardly going to hurt us too much in the short term and potentially the benefits long term are huge. The brave make these decisions and reap the benefits in the long term. The weak end up playing in the finals once every ten years and finish nineth every time they don't finish bottom.

Are we brave or are we weak?

a bit early in the season to be starting such threads. Perhaps we should have a thread called posters who should never post again instead

I don't know.

You're right though, 2008 is a development year.

I would say we are developing players and they were in the team ahead of more experienced campaigners such as Saddo and Wiggo: Bower, Jamison, Grigg, Gibbs, Murphy, Edwards, Betts and Jackson, and I bet if fit we would have added Kreuzer and Hammer to that list. That's 9 kids out of 22.

A few of them have already gone past other kids too, let alone more experienced players like Russell and Blackwell. We're still finding out more about the kids as their bodies mature.

Armfield, Pfieffer and Browne haven't played an Ants game yet. Do we play Benjamin and Aisake too? What add another 5 kids to the 9 mentioned....then who do you leave out? Banno? That's one. That's not the answer.

One thing is for sure, we can't fit everyone into 22.

I would have thought Pfieffer would have been called up in Rd 1, although I hadn't selected him in my team. Synbad expected him to play every game, and Synners aint a bad judge.

Anderson is underdone but is a proven contributor who requires more game time. Is he next in line ahead of Armfield, Pfieffer and Browne?

Look, there's a lot of kids in the team, ie young bodies getting accustomed to senior footy, and the 3 new seniors are a bit underdone. It's a team game and a blend of youth and experience is needed, but they all need to be match fit and then we can find out what the team can do.

Give it a chance I say; it's a development year. There will be improvement in the kids who played yesterday and the stamina of the seniors will come to them as it did before.

I'm not head hunting. Bannister doesn't take the game on as I would like, but hey that's maybe what Banno did is what Ratts wanted him to do.

I don't know.

What I do know is that we are going to climb up the ladder sooner rather than later, and kids like Aisake will break into the team this year.

It will take time.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

By my reckoning it's actually a bit late. We should've been doing this years ago, and no doing it duirng the last three rounds of every season doesn't count.


Selective quoting

So you believe that we'll play finals then?

Ultimately that, and winning Grand Finals, is what it's all about.

It's true that we are developing players and plenty of them which is great to see after all these year. There's some exciting talent on our list.

Maybe I'm pushing for the club to go too far by playing even more kids, but it hard not to get excited about the future when you watch players like Jamison, Bower, Murphy, Hampson, ect sharply improving and gaining confidence with every senior AFL game they play. It's hard not to get excited when Edwards comes out on debut and does some very special things (even if his kicking boot was off and he disappeared during the final term). You just want to see more of it. No matter how many games of VFL footy they play they'll never get as much out of it as they would from just one or two AFL games.

Sad to say but I've seen all there is to see of Bannister, and while he's had a few games where you've nodded your head and thought 'Well done Banno' he's shown us what he can do and it just isn't enough. There's no upside to Wiggins or Saddington either. We need to move on and while others might say "it's just Round 1" or "Don't take the loss so hard" this really has nothing to do with our Richmond loss really. I was of this opinion before the match and I still feel the same way now. The Richmond loss just provided a bit of extra inspiration I guess.

That's just my opinion.

If we are depending on Jordan Bannister to save us games then we need to rethink...JB will probably be playing his last year but he wasnt the reason we lost.

Likewise if we are depending on Darren Pfeiffer to win us games then its going to be a long season....

Both of them are minor cogs in the team, some of you need to rethink who and what wins you games and its not Bannisters and Pfieffers.

Its your Blue Chippers who win and lose you games, the players who play the major positions......if I put Jonothan Brown and Chad Cornes in last nights lineup it would have been how far Carlton....what Bannister did or didnt do wouldnt be an issue, Saddington, Wiggins could have played as well and the result would have been us winning with one leg in the air.....

We need Brown and Cornes type calibre players or we are going nowhere....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

I really think Jamo is going to be special.

He had a hard night but showed glimpses of his talent.

A bit of a spiderman our Jamo.

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They coud'nt.....could they?

Oh no certainly not. I'm not making Bannister the scape goat, even if some might see it that way.

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I totally agree but given the choice I'd rather the player with the greatest potential to play 100+ games from this point forward get the senior opportunity. I'm not saying that playing the kids would necessarily win us more game, although I think that might possibly be the case further on down the season if they were played, but that we're more likely to win many more games next year and the year after that.

He learnt a number of lessons from Richo, and proved that Jammo needs to keep working hard on his endurance, but I rate him as easily the best man on man defender the club has produced since Silvagni retired... not that it means much but its true nonetheless. Great spolier, good body on body and has the height to take on the taller forwards. Love him.

I'm interested in the players who are going to be matchwinners/savers and have the ability to be something special...the rest are accessories to fill in the gaps.....

re: Jamison....nice player in the Michael Sexton mode but he aint ever going to be able to take on Richo and the like on his own.....fighting way out of weight division without any help in his corner either.

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

and i get called chicken little

i agree, jammo looks the goods for sure

yeah lets not worry about a few meaningless wins... we could be up for a priority pick.

you know at some point we actually do have to start winning.

i'm not entirely sure kids getting smashed week in week out does a lot of good for their development.

What are you going to do if the guy in your avatar has a few ordinary games Andain? Sack him too?

Geeze, let's get a grip. We haven't been on the bottom of the ladder for nothing.

I totally agree with the 'A' on this one

Wiggins and Bannister are not the future and shouldnt be in the team. Both are in their mid 20s and their decision making is hopeless.

I find it hard to believe that some of these posters are so conservative about the selection of the team.

I would have had Browne in the team. He may get a game but not at Bannister's dropping because Ratten was happy with the job he did on Deludio. The point is as a footballer Bannister isnt up to AFL standard. The future is what counts.
So its round one. Doesnt matter if its round one or 22 play kids if they are fit.
The problem is that Anderson and Benjamin and Aisake have had injuries.

An area of concern from Thursday night was the lack of pace. It has to be addressed. We have too many players who simply havent got natural speed. I would be playing Benjamin and Anderson if fit finding a spot in that team and playing them.
This year is another building year. It tests your patience but I personally have it, but I want young kids playing . Give them 40 to 50 games and see if they are good enough. Bannister , Wiggins and Saddington have been there already . Their time is up.

The funny thing about pace is that it is only a problem when you lose. Q2 we didn't look slow, but by Q4 we did, so did we not have pace or we fatigued?
The thing about pace is that it's not leg speed that makes a team look quick, it's the foot skills. When you link up players accuratly and quickly then you look quick.

My biggest area of concern is skill level and kicking style. Far too many kick failed to hit their target and even worse the ones that did were high floater/chip kicks that gave the opposition too much time to spoil.
Lets fix this up, then we can discuss leg speed.

strange opinions here, it is important to have some experienced players out there or the young ones will learn nothing except how to get thrashed. I am positive the likes of Bower would benefit from having Saddington next to him - sure he is not the best player but his experience could help settle a backline which has Thornton as it's most experienced player.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world