Terrible news about Walker tonight. Especially given that many of us wanted him to explode onto the scene this year.

It seems like we have had a fair few more injuries over the summer than what we'd prefer. A lot is down to luck, perhaps the majority. But, as St. Kilda admitted last year, organisation and professionalism can play a role. People say that it is no accident that Sydney had nearly no injuries for a few years.

Off the top of my head:
- Walker re-injures shoulder (even though injuries may be slightly different, maybe he should've sat out another week?)
- Hampson plays in Q1 and then gets knee scoped for a pre-existing injury (sounds very strange)
- Setanta's sickness saga
- Aisake's groin
- Joey anderson?
- Benjamin?
- Hartlett's past
- Stevens
- there was a player playing on injections in the NAB cup from what I recall (madness)
- Gibbs playing on injections last year (madness)

We seem to have a few recurring problems. And bad luck too.

It doesn't matter this year because we still won;t be a great side, but as we begin to have a tilt at the top 4 over the coming years, we need our injury management to be up there with Sydney's.

Is it?

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

@#$%&! good question!

Add AB's groin to that list too..

We've got-
High Performance Manager - Justin Cordy
Assistant Conditioning Coach - Noel McCarthy
Rehabilitation Coach - Mark Homewood
Weights Coach - Stuart Livingston

..so there's no excuses for an extended list of muscle or soft tissue injuries. Collision injuries are just bad luck but re-occurring soft tissue injuries really annoy me.
Our injury list atm before Rnd1 is NOT GOOD!

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There's so much I could say...

Stevens was the one who got the injection. He got it from 'carpet burn' on the Telstra Dome surface against Hawthorn to get rid of the burning sensation.

It was probably judged a minor thing at the time, but later of course he found it to be infected and react badly to the treatment.

Aside from that, surely you have to give your club some faith that they know how to manage injuries.

simonverbeek



I'm not happy about these 2 injuries. IMO we didn't err on the side of damage control with these 2...sure maybe bad luck, but I have my doubts.


- Setanta...an illness that couldn't be helped (remember Frank Marchezani never was himself after Glandular Fever where he lost heaps of weight...took him 6 months to get back into the side).

- Aisake's groin ...this is another ridiculous ongoing injury. Surely he should have been ready by now. It may be his own fault in the way he goes over the top with his training, or he's a slow healer.

- Joey anderson...hammy, recovered, then followed by an ankle injury in 08, has interupted his preseason. At least he was not risked against the Doggies. Did he have the correct strapping on his ankle? Probably.

- Benjamin...WTF is going on there? Maybe injury prone...I doubt that though. It's probably just growing pains and the strain from pushing his body to the limit to maintain his status as the supreme speed machine at the club.

- Hartlett...he seems right to go. His training regime has differed from the past (incl pilates). He looks ready to go in Rd 1. He was rested after a twinge was felt at training a few weeks back. Tick...so far.

- Stevens...was it Stevens who had an injection administered to. His injury is bad luck...infection and pulled muscle in weight training. We need the 5 minute angels hovering over our players.

Agree.

- Bentick' groin...surely this must be right by now. He was running like a machine before the xmas break. Maybe the sprints coach may have tried to change him too much. I wish he was available in Rd 1.




That's a hard one to answer. I have my doubts but that's just an opinion from someone on the outer. Maybe all indications were favourable for Walker to play. I'd rather us be more cautious though.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

What concerns me most is that our injuries seem to be striking the blokes we least want or need injuries to occur to. What are our biggest weaknesses? Ruck, defense, and additional fowards. So who do we lose? Our bets ruck prospect, two of our best defenders (if you count Setanta's illness), and our second best forward.

The area where we have the most depth, our midfield, is the area where the depth isn't actually being tested. The areas where we have little depth are the ones being put under pressure. THAT's what worries me most.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

Donstuie



At least it tests our perception of our depth and exposes areas where we have to add more depth.

The ruck situation was always going to be an issue in the short term when our senior ruckmen are Cloke and Ackland, because:

Kreuzer is a first year player and will come on in 2-3 years (faster than the norm for a ruckman). Just adapting to the pace and nuances of senior footy at this level.

Hampson is a skinny young man embarking on his 2nd season of AFL footy and only 4th to 5th year of Aussie rules. A long season would be telling for him.

Aisake is yet to be proven, but at 203cm and a good spring like the abovementioned gives us good back up, but is unproven and still learning the job of a ruckman.

Jacobs is our rookie ruck. Has improved his stamina and movement around the ground. Unproven and a fair way to go for the youngster in his 2nd year at senior level.

Bang Bang we lose the emerging Hampson, and our usual emergency ruckman in the 199cm Setanta (who isn't a bonafide ruckman), Aisake isn't available through injuru to try him out and Ackland is still recovering from surgery (thankgod) and we have to go back to sqare one and rely on the No1 draftee and the 196cm (Cloke) braveheart to pull us through.

Stepping stones.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Walker - Maybe he had already sat out the extra week the week before. DOA would know but Walks rehab has been extensive. The incident was just one of those things. It was big play, big tackle, arm outstretched and a big landing. Correct me if I'm wrong DOA but I think it was just plain badluck. Prior to the incident he looked fine and was working his way into the game nicely.

Hampson - Trained okay and was apparently fine - He had some lose stuff floating in his knee that just aggravated him and prevented him from jumping properly. There was no indication it would require any op prior to him coming off the ground. No big deal.

Setanta - Looks to have picked up a virus of sorts during the off season. Hardly the clubs fault.

Aisake - Strained a groin in a game. He is a tall gangly lad and like a giraffe his legs can spread and he is prone to this sort of injury. He did the wrong thing in the off season and played some sport in Ireland that he shouldn't, hence his late start to the year. Again not the clubs fault.

Joey - Pulled up sore in Darwin during the off season when doing some training alone. He phoned the club and they immediately told him to stop training. They put him in cotton wool for the 2nd 1/2 of 2007 when he was injured so they have done everything that is capable to look after him.

Clinton - He's a finely tuned athlete and he pulled a quad when running during a warm up in Sth Africa. Such is life. Perhaps he has a body that just has to combine the athletics with the body hits.

Hartlett - had to change his running style to prevent his hammy injuries. He also had to do more stretching away from the club which he is now doing. The club have put the right stuff in place and the player has to follow the instructions, which he is.

Steveo - ricked his neck pushing weights. Such is life. The 2007 injury was game related and as soon as it was diagnosed he stopped playing.

As for the rest I don't know but that I suspect it is purely a piece of maybe, could be, should be to add to your argument. Players get injections for all sorts of reasons and not all of them have an injection to play with a broken arm. Some might get an injection for blisters to numb mild pain. It's all relative.

AFL is a high impact sport and blokes get soft tissue injuries. Such is life.
It's not as if half the list is out with a hammy.

There doesn't appear to be any complaints about Judds or Hadley's or Pfeiffer or Fev rehabs.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

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"I had to eat"

Yes but Gibbs playing with injections last year was an absolute disgrace and I for one am bemused as to how it happened. From what I have heard it was 100 per cent Pagan's call, so hopefully such instances won't happen again this year. In fact won't happen ever again.

I didn't want to quote - because I couldn't have shortened it - but thanks Cazzesman - that was a brillaint post which definitely puts things in perspective!

Cheers,
House

Walker had this injury throughout the 2nd half of last season. I ask why was he out there at all last year????? Why was he not put out to the paddock to get over it or have surgery, like other players were while we were tanking games

This latest injury is a direct result of the poor managementfrom last year.
PS Channel 10 have repeatedly shown the Walker injury- It was not as 'big' a incident as many have made out. In fact it appeared fairly innocuous.

If Carlton is to take the worldline which leads to an early premiership then improved injury managerment would indeed be a critical thing to address.

I say this in full knowledge of the apparently unavoidable injuries that have been mentioned in this post...

In that fateful near future premiership year, a time upon which I am very much focussed, we are blessed with luck and have few injuries.

But as Ron Barassi once said, the harder you work, the luckier you get.

In our situation and at this point in time, we would be well advised to try to improve in this area.

Yes I know that many of our injuries can be put down to unlucky incidents.....

But I do suggest that more investment this area is something that has an excellent chance of bringing substantial football dividends to our club.

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My Blue Heaven

In 2006 Pete Mulkearns was the conditioning coach who operated in accordance with Pagan's preferred (possibly old-fashioned) methods.

In 2007 Paul Ford brought a more scientific approach (not Pagan's choice); he clashed with Pagan on at least a weekly basis. There wasn't even an assistant until part way through the season.

In 2008 we have Justin Cordy and co.

Most of the injuries mentioned were incurred prior to the 2008 pre-season so they can hardly be blamed on the current crew - lack of continuity maybe.

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Hey Rocky; there are too many rabbits ... in China.

Cazzesman, I agree that bad luck plays a part. Obviously, I don't have all the details, but the circumsatnces surrounding some of these injuries do not reek of professionalism.



When you see the incident, there's no way this injury was 'plain bad luck'. A non-pathological glenohumeral joint would not have been injured by the impact that Walker's sustained in that clash. It was surely related to his recent injury. I'm not saying he wasn't ready - but the questions need to be asked. The suspect management of Walker's shoulder goes all the way back to last season.



Again, I don't buy it. If the injury was 'chronic', playing in the first 5 minutes would not have revealed anything that was not present at training. Why was he played to the point of surgery being required? And once required, why was the scope delayed? And 'no big deal'? I know that nobody is excited by endoscopic surgery anymore, but it still poses risks. A general anaesthetic alone has a 1 in 10000 risk of death (or so they told us back in med school - admittedly the figure would be lower in a patient of Hammo's age and cardiovascular condition). And then a trochar is introduced into the joint capsule with subsequent risks of introducing infection or causing haemorrhage. It is 'minor surgery' but it's not 'no big deal'.



If we are to believe the version of events that was posted on here, why was he sent back to Ireland for Mumma's cooking (great idea) instead of being actively managed by one of Melbourne's world class ID consultants.



Sorry Cazz - we all saw Gibbs roll his ankle. And we found out he played on LA injections the next week. It wasn't for blister for god's sake. That was a disgrace.

Cazzesman - I love the inside info you bring. But sometimes in your enthusiasm to douse any criticism of the club, you miss opportunities to identify areas in which we can improve.

Look, I'm not saying that we're unprofessional. What I'm saying is that the Carlton I grew up with aimed to be the BEST. Best premiership tally, best players (Judd), best management (Swann), best off-field team etc etc.

We should be aiming to have the BEST injury management. We don't accept 'okay' at our footy club, we innovate.

Why not be the first club to have a full time sports physician? Every English soccer club and American footy team has a full time physician, but no AFL clubs do. Maybe we should be the first?

We may be managing our injuries adequately, but adequate is not enough. We should aim to be the best sporting club in Australia at managing injuries. It will aid our future chances of premiership glory - and that's what it all comes down to.

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

Yeah I'm a believer in the softly softly approach. Makes me cringe when players come back from injury because every year it seems they are coming back sooner and every year there seems to be more injuries.

I agree with the Gibbs comment, he was what 17? We were certainly not in the latter half of the season vying for a finals spot, rest him nurture his body as much as possible, I know it's AFL and a cut-throat business but he didn't need to play really, did he?

Cloke re did his shoulder and now Walker, at least Murphy recovered from his ok though.

Reminds me When Kouta came back with that god awful knee brace and who was clearly not ready, he injured it again, medial I think? It was pathetic. To put a bloke back in who's weapon was freakish athletical ability when he's clearly not right, when he had added weight and restriction from the brace was just ridiculous, bordering on negligent.

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The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger

From what I remember hearing at the time, Walker playing on last season had more to do with Walker and his determination to play.

Hard to put a guy in for surgery if he's able to get out there and more importantly wants to play for his club, rather than sit on the sidelines.

If as you say, the incident was fairly innocuous, then it had nothing to do with the timing of his surgery anyway...which I might add was done around new years rather than right after the season anyway.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

There is a simple way to stop a player from taking the field.....IT IS CALLED THE SELECTION COMMITTEE....YOU DON"T NAME HIM, HE CAN'T PLAY.

the medical staff have ruled out many players who have wanted to play...Whether this latest injury had anything to do with last year-- no one except the club and the medical staff know that, but if perception is anything- the club have murdered him on this one- regardless of whether he made the call to play on last year.

Is it really worth forcing a 21 year old, who is desperate to play and able to play....to not play? It hasn't effected his season 2008.

I think you'd rather encourage his enthusiasm, rather than put a wet blanket over it.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

The answer to this entire thread.

It's not the injuries as such that are a concern, the only concern would be the management of the player AFTER the injury... and from what I've seen/heard this year that isn't a concern at all.

Be it good, or bad for us - but Carlton has had a pretty decent run with scarce few injuries in the past 2-3 years in comparison to a lot of other clubs... this is good for the players, but bad in reality as we've had close to a full-strength team playing through our darkest period...

That can't have been a simple thing to do. What do you know about how they went about it and how long it took?

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Hey Rocky; there are too many rabbits ... in China.