why dont we ask barack???? he appears to be the expert on recruiting.

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Back like a raging case of pubic lice

I like your guts SB to come on here and argue against our great white hope.

We have all been through so much emotion when it comes to big Setanta, we are so fond of him that someone coming in here with some realities of what football he has produced is hard to swallow.

If I was a bit more of a pessimist and let go of my emotion I would probably agree with you but at this stage I too am holding onto the hope that he does become an athletic monster who will dominate.

It will come down to list management in the next 1 ot 2 years when we start recruiting kids and assessing whether Setanta has a spot or not, pending on his improvement.

But i love the big guy and can appreciate what he has done to give himslef every opportunity. So all the best big guy. But right now he is a mediocre footballer, that's the reality. Sentiment will allow for nothing if he remains that way.

EDIT: I'd just likte to add that I am all for giving him a postion to learn rather than throwing all over the place like Pagan did. But if there comes a time when a different player/players can fill that role better than him then there is probably no place for him on the list.

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Last year Ratts made a point of saying he wouldn't be moving Setanta around as had been the case last year - even if a couple of ruckmen went down. Similar to the thinking on Waite I guess - they must think that Pagan's approach (which to be fair was probably borne out of necessity) has limited their overall effectiveness.

Setanta would be one of the first picked if I was running things.....he has some learning to do and smoothing of a few skills but he has come along way and I enjoy the way he attacks the footy with passion and gives his best every contest......cant wait for the return bout with Lloyd of Essendon*.

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

That's just plain wrong.

I think I read that somewhere.

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I agree completely.

I don't know where talk of how he gets beaten week in and out comes from to be honest. He was doing well last year when played at full-back. Had a few lucky goals go against him on Lloyd, 6 from Gehrig who probably got into his mind a little and then a few from Jonathan Brown. Those are 3 quality opponants anyway.

I also think his disposal, while it looks ungainly, is pretty effective, apart from the occassional time it all goes wrong.

The fact is that he's willing to take his opponant on, the baulk on Matthew Lloyd last year was priceless, he's inspirational, enthusiastic, sets a fantastic example for his teammates.

I really just don't understand why people are so quick to criticise him.

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"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

QFT

Well said.

QF Flowering Truth!

Love Livo as a bloke - a real gent. Sorry SB,but he had plenty of chances over the 6 yrs and why didn't the other clubs take a punt on him? I still vividly recall Tarrant getting hold of him one day and Pago had him off after a qtr. Unfortunately, this was all too often when he matched up against the real class. Honestly, Gehrig just used to dine out on him. Mmmm, Livo, yum, yum.

Santy not Southby and I have Jamo slightly ahead of him, but hell he's a handy guy to have on our list.

I'm embarrassed at the thought of either O'Alipin jumping online and reading yet another topic of pure and utter rubbish. I said it before, and I'll say it again, there is NO FLOWERING chance he's anywhere near out-of-favour! He's in my top 5 players for passion alone - it's infectious.

I've lost a lot of respect for you Sydney Blue. Yet again, you need to get yourself to a game before you can earn any credibility on what he does or doesn't do that's caught on camera...and yes I'm well aware you don't give a shit what I think.

Once again I agree with Elwood, as almost always.

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--------------------------------------------------------"The only one that could ever love me..."

perfect summation

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

My favorite player ... GO CARLOS!!!!!

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There's so much I could say...

In 2005 Setanta played 1 senior game.
In 2006 he played 11 senior games.
In 2007 he played 22 senior games.

In a number of those games he's been good, in some he's been very good and in some he's been stitched up by some of the best players in the league.

Add 20 or so Bullants games and he's played a grand total of just over 50 games of Australian rules football. Most kids coming into the league have played between 100 and 200 games of aussie rules.

Jim Stynes, Brownlow medallist and one of the best ruckmen of the last 20 years, played his first AFL match in his fourth year in the country.

What Setanta's done so far is truly freakish.

There's no guarantee that he'll go on to have a long and glorious career but to underestimate what he's achieved so far is simply wilful ignorance.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Sorry guys, I'm with SB on this one.

If I could turn back time, I'd love to retain Livo and Prendagast... and get rid of Setanta and that other useless hack, Judd.

And what happened to Murray Vance - another great recruit ruined in his prime as a result of being a very ordinary player. Shame on Carlton.

at present Setanta is in the same class as Wiggo, Prender, Luke O'sullivan, Ron DeLulio etc etc - a good honest tryer, only time will tell if he can elevate above this lot.

At least we know he gives his all.

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KK another terrible post. You're making a habit of it. First Bower, now Setanta. Thank god your not a talent scout. Setanta may not have the natural skills for the game just yet, but he can kick effectively on both feet (more than a lot of players) and handles the ball really well. His marking is coming along nicely and he is is getting better at reading the play each time he steps out there. But what I admire most other than his athleticism, is his natural flare for competitive sports. His willingness to take risks, take the game on in all respects and back himself. A few examples... his baulk on Lloyd, His goals from rucking contests, his numerous dashes from defence. Thats the sort of thing that excites me about a guy that is just learning the game. He backs himself and never backs down. I doubt we could say the same for Prenda, Livo, etc.

I have never praised livo Mr Dog, all I am saying is that Setanta is still unproven and an unknown quantity - unlike you who thinks he is already a star.

I have always said that I love his enthusiasm, attitude and application, lets hope it turns into something special - he's not there yet,

Now as for your boyfriend Bower - if he had half of Santy's application he would be much better off

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

I never said Setanta is a star right this minute, but he is certainly capable of it. The point is, you are so quick to knock and criticse these blokes without giving them any recognition for what they have achieved to date and what they can achieve in the future based on their obvious talents... with some good coaching. Thats what makes your opinions boring and ill conceived. Some forsight rather than poor judgement would be appreciated. How about looking at some of the positives and encouraging these guys.

whats funny is that you are having a crack at me for being negative, while at the same time resorting to personal insaults. I'm glad you're not on the selection committee either - you'd have the little league playing cos they all try so hard.

I actually have praised Santy, but for the right reasons, I have not placed unrealistic expectations on him either, I recognise his talent (largely made up of his determination and effort) but I can also pinpoint his shortcomings (which are all a factor of not growing up playing this game)

Do I want him sacked - No
Do I want him to have more time - Yes
Do I think he will progress and have a 150 plus career - Yes, but as an honest contributor.

At this point all that Bower has achieved is getting drafted and playing a handful of games - yes a great achievement in itself, I'll be happy to acknowledge his achievements beyond this should they occur.

Mr Dog, please don't tell me you're one of these "I never bag players" types. Come on, who have you not liked that much in the past?

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Livo was a huge disappointment! Ultra huge!! He was so bad, it's a disgrace to even compare him to Setanta.

I was the poster who praised Livo for what he was as an 17 yo, time and time again, for what he was as an under 18 player; and I brought up the fact that when he was drafted he was an Under 18 champion as a CHF. I did this because I liked the guy and enjoyed a chat with him (very likeable)...but I never had him in my first 22.

What I saw of Livo as a senior player 'live' appauled me so much...and you know what...I really don't blame anyone but the recruiters for recruiting him. He was the biggest disappointment of all time...moreso that Vance, because he was really rated to takeover SOS' FB post. Enough said.

Yeah, watch this space.

Those who underestimate Setanta know nothing about his ability. It's easy to highlight his lack of AFL pedigree and how he's still learning the game; forget that shit...lets look at the real Setanta...the freak.

Those not convinced of Setanta's ability know little about his speed, reach, timing, strength....kicking skills and ability to break lines....and at 199cm it's freakish what he does. He can kick allright. I'm glad he's not doing anymore of those 70m bombs he was doing when he first started; he can kick allright.

He was a much better player in 2007 than he was in 2006 and has a long way to go; that's called progress.

Have a look at the Hawks game recently. Did you see how short Waite, Jamison and Thornton were against the 3 towers they had; and you reckon we don't need Setanta.

Watch this space....his weight loss (I was told today) is n longer as dire as was posted yesterday, but certainly has affected his preparation.

We need him fit! Period! Then he's striaght into our first 22.

Livo vs Setanta. Pfffffft
Lance (circa 2007) vs Setanta (circa 2007) Pffft

Setanta miles ahead in those 2 comparisons...the other 2 had no upside whatsoever...they were finished. What a disastrous comparison.

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kingkerna wrote



I like that. Well put KK.

I do believe Setanta is a better footballer now than some give him credit for.

He has stood out in a shit team. Yes Shit! The record speaks for itself.

In our prime, Setanta would have been knocking on the door, not in for consecutive games. He would have learned his trade in the Twos, and promoted when he was ready. We had a huge shortage of tall players and no rucks. He plugged a few holes before he was ready. Most commendable, and the potential was and is obvious.

Regardless of what should have happened, in the meantime, the opportunity and exposure to senior footy hasn't gone to waste. He has grown to understand the game; his strengths and his shortfalls. He has improved beyond anyone's expectation for a bloke at 199cm, who never played the game.

I have no doubt that if we put this guy on the market, at 199cm, super fast for his size etc etc he would be snapped up by at least half a dozen other coaches.

We have to find this guy a spot, settle him, ingrain our game plan (as we have to with 90% of our list) and persevere. We must grow our people. We're a young team (the youngest); it;s not a race. Lets get it right.

Hawks were shit when Clarkson came on board. His team took huge risks implementing his game plan, and they were a joke. Clarkson had a 2 year contract. At the end of his first year he looked to be a huge risk. 2 years later and they are no joke; Clarkson is a guru.

We failed to extract the potential of our players during the Pagan era. Lets not continue on that path. Lets develop them; they're still young, tall, fast...the skills must suit Ratten's game plan. Everyone is a chance to succeed. 2008 is a development year. I have no doubts about that.

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