Hartlett is no chance, is simply not good enough. Will be a good SANFL player though.

You wannabe recruiters out there...Who are the up and coming Key forwards in next year's draft we should be targetting - surely that should be the priority?

..even though it's not a position so much anymore, the CHF 'role' is still important, though the 'role' is now leading up the ground, or doubling back to the goal square more than just owning the F50.. ..and since it seems Waite is gonna be used as CHB (from what i've read here),, my vote is for the big Setant'.. ..he'll crash all the packs you want, he'll harass dfenders, and he's quick and agile for a tall player.. ..for those saying he can't read the play as much, better he's further from the defence line then eh..?.. ..and if reading play can be a problem, at least he's not responsible so much for his man up forward, and he can just chase the ball..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

If Lance was still with us we could rotate him between CHF & CHB

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Cheats never prosper (except in the AFL)

Yep

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

The emergence of Jamo will be crucial for team balance, IMHO.

If he comes on as expected, then he Carlos and Thornton form the core tall backmen brigade. IIRC, one fo Ratt's first comments after taking the job was that Carlos would be played at FB all year regardless of what happens in the ruck position to give him a chance to learn a position.

If Jamo comes on as we hope he takes the #2 forward, Thornton takes the third and plays off him to create.

Then Waite has the chance to move forward and rotate with Cloke for CHF. I think Cloke is the option at the moment - particularly with his workrate covering ground. To be honest I wouldn't mind seeing Waite on a wing - he'd be a tough match up as a target for rebounding out of defensive 50, and he's always there to take on the Riewoldt/Brennan types who are freak athletes.

What do you base that on?He`s only played 4 games and has been injured most of the time he has been at the club. Give him a go.

If he doesn't make it this year he's gone. Three seasons to make his mark in a position with stiff competition. With Kennedy gone and Waite a chance toplay CHB, he is never going to get a better chance to show us what he's got and I hope it's plenty...

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Yes agree.He has to make this year count but i think he could develop into an Earl Spalding bash and crash style CHF.He will gain confidence if left in the one position & through regular appearances.I remember North supporters being critical of Drew Petrie early on in his career and now he is an important part of their set up.I think Hartlett could be a similar story.

Hartlett is an interesting cae study in football history, let alone Carlton history....time will tell nothing or an amazing story.

Crash and Bash: is that necessary? I mean necessary in today's game? If so how often? is that critical?

Was Earl just crash and bang? I don't think so. At times, yes, but that wasn't HIS game, it's what people want to believe in folklore. Whilst he was a terrible kick early on (although he kicked Carlton's arse in 2 last quarter efforts to sink us before he crossed to the Blues), he was an important link man too....some have obviously forgetten that, the young supporters don't know that...the legend of Earl has become whatever one wants to type on a website forum....not for me though...I remember Earl as an allround Aussie rules footballer.

Earl was a damn good mark, a good athlete, a great shepherder and reader of the play, and only when a wild desprate kick was thrust forward and he was outpositioned he 'bang and crashed 'the pack...that didn't happen 10 times a quarter, let alone 10 times a game, for those interested...it happened when it happened...5 times a game; the modern game has changed alot since then...13 years ago.

As for Hartlett...his-story hasn't begun, except for the sensationalists, bystand experts ...and the modern game whereby we turn them over before their time is ready because oif the draft system as it is....turn them over..balance the list...show results quick...burn out quick...whatever it is, it is.

For mine, Hartlett may be in the wrong era and the wrong team at the wrong time; he's still akid.

3 years at Carlton...what does that prove? What does it prove if we discard a 196cm KP at 22 yo?

Whate will we say? He was or wasn't a potential AFL player or he wasn't given time to ripen and build the body to withstand the demands/ expecations of the modern game? Which one? Too many armchair experts to understand short term or long term injury, watching footy from their couch or reserved seat! They're not a good enough judge imo.

It's 2008, not 1987.

Lets grow our own KIDS....especially the fast, special and tall. Nurture them so they shall grow into great Navy Blue legends.

I'm not saying Hatlett will be a legend, but I'm not expecting him to be one after 5 years let alone 3 years.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

hartlett when fit is a good player.
hartlett + fev can kick accurately over 50 meters. if plan A fails then we can try plan B where fev and harts can float outside the 50 meter arc ...waite and fish inside the 50 meter arc..196cm players that can lead to the rightspots, can take a mark and kick straight over 50 meters you dont throw them away.

CHF is not an important position--until you have a genuine one and can use the position in the traditional way.

A good Chf,/genuine big bodied target 40 mtrs in front of fev would change the way teams match up against us. More space for all the forwards because the opp defence has to manage the entire forwardline, not just a wedge from the goalsquare to sixty out.

Hope harlett makes it, plenty of good chf types have been invisible before 22.

Bondi i was a huge Earl fan and agree he was much more than "bash and crash".I was just pointing out that he performed a lot of the heavy contact work in our forward line, which i think is still necessary in todays game, and believe Hartlett could fill this role.

when have the club stated this??? i sincerely hope not. waite makes too many costly howlers in defence (or brain explosions as denis called them) that cost us goals. up forward he is a goal-kicking match winner. so PLEASE leave him forward. setanta, jamieson and thorton give our backline enough height, bulk and strength without waite.

I put this post up on Friday arvo in another thread which you must have missed....I'll copy it here...

"Interesting listening to Greg Swann for an hour this morning on KB's show on SEN.

He said that Waite would be down back this year....as will Setanta....and that Kreuzer WOULD be in the side in Round 1; and that he was just a great athlete and a lovely kid.

He thought our defence would be stronger this year with Thornton only taking the third tall; and Bower and Jamison showing heaps of promise.

As we have no Veterans on the list; Jamison can be played; even though he's a Rookie"

Princes Park Whistler



Yeah I agree he did a lot of contact work, and mentioned the shepherding, and could have gone on with bumping (BIG ONES), yelling, directing along with the crash and banging. But like you and I know, he was also a good footy player (even moreso when he tidied up his goal kicking).

The more I think of it, the more I see Hartlett there in 2010. I hope he earns a game or 2 early in the season, including the NAB Cup..I really want to check him out over a whole game, not cameos.

I thought he looked damn strong and showed some good signs against Geelong; the preseason nightgame in the NAB.

If Hartlett (as a KP) and Bower (as a very fast tall backman) make the grade, as well as Jamison (as our bonafide FB), they will change the dynamics of our team; we do have a class midfield and champion full forward.

Imagine if we could release Walker from the backline...and even Waite or Setanta from the backline.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Just got back and read the Jan 19 Training Report from The Special K from QLD.

Best ever report.

Like many of us, he is convinced Jamison is and will continue to be our bona fide FB; he beat everyone today.

In addition, Grigg is looking the goods to take a HB role, and Russell is another outstanding...naturally all the usuals for superb...Murphs, Gibbs, Carrots, Judd, Stevens, Simmo and even Pfiefer.

And Cloke looks like a CHF. Hartlett didn't train...and Ackland is being trimmed down as a support backman . Saddo also looked good. Austin is still promising but young.

So, lets say, if :
FB: Jamison
CHB:Waite
BP: Thornton

where is Setanta going to play in the backline? CHB? Maybe Waite will play forward at some stage.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

CHB-Jamison (shoe in)
CHF-Asaike,Krueser in a year..

Jamo is really firming up for this year's "He's Training The House Down!!" award...

Previous winners include Ian Prendergast, Callum Chambers, Sean Charles, Stephen O'Reilly and David Spriggs

Hope you have more luck than them Jamo....

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

Interesting that Edwards got a fair rap from the Fev at today's leadership presser. Said he should do well at senior level and kick some goals. Always good to hear how players rate their teammates. Given how much of each other they see in action, they should be well equipped to know. Particularly interesting, given that Fev is speaking as a fellow tall forward.

Not sure at his size that he's a CHF type of option. So not sure where he would fit into the senior team at the moment. Can't imagine him getting a game ahead of Fev, Fisher or Kreuzer.

I wonder if Fev could handle CHF and they could try Edwards at FF?

Kicking goals will continue to be a problem and stopping teams with three prong marking forwards will be the same....

We have no CHF and have no CHB even though I agree with Budzy that its more about matchups down back than set positions...

Take your pick out of Cloke, Hartlett, Waite for CHF and Thornton, Bower, Hartlett, Waite and maybe Austin for CHB....

Midfield dominance may give us a 10-20% buffer but the efficient teams who kick their goals via their star players with reduced possies will overcome that buffer......

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen