Nice work.

Cazz has Bower at CHB in his 2008 team, so maybe we have three options back there?

I have Cloke at CHF playing an Earl Spalding role. Pushes up to the wing and creates a contest. This will allow Fisher to float in around the 50 and Fev to lead from the square.

The modern Forward Line is what you make it - look at Footscray. The game plan has to be to exploit our strengths (Fevola's leading, Fisher's marking and Eddie's goal sense off the packs) while minimising our weaknesses (on previous performances a haphazard delivery to the forwards in a one dimentional way).

Waite needs to play CHB to allow others to fill their roles (Thornton in particular who can be damaging if playing on the third tall)

I think it's a little early to come to that conclusion. There's still tonnes of development in both I reckon so anything's possible...

Definately have Waite & Setanta as our key backs with Ando Bower Gibbsy Tbird & others working off them and setting up attacking forward play.

Hopefully Austin and Jamo can have the time to fine tune their games as key backs in the bullants and be ready later in the year or next season.
We need Setanta & Waitey injury free for the season... *fingers crossed*

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There's so much I could say...

Adam Hartlett for CHF.Massive kick,aggressive and has sorted out his hamstring problems.Waitey can own CHB.

Don't Gibbs, Walker, Murphy and Judd get it in the centre, wax it around a bit and kick it to Fevola?

Why make the simple things complex.
Am I missing something?

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

Why hasn't anyone labelled Carlton of 2008 the 'Rat Pack' yet?

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Cer 'ch 'n alluog Blues

someone just has

Yeah, badly done job, but good enough for the purposes of the discussion

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Cer 'ch 'n alluog Blues

The problem with Fish is that he is to slow. Most teams throw a hard running defender on him and the ball gets cleared out to easily.

He has the best hands in the AFL.

Shows how much you know about the game if you think he's too slow...

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

CHB (for 22 games) I doubt it. He'll get crunched.

Bower might become a CHB one day, but it will be in 5 years. No use slotting him there now, while the team still has lots of inexperience, and he is still a long way off having the build required to play CHB. If in 2-3 years he is looking more the part, then by all means you consider throwing him in there. But right now you don't play a kid like Bower at CHB.

Austin I like but he's just a kid.

Over the next couple of years, CHB = Setanta or Waite, or Aisake as a rough bet.

Ok, here's the thing ... and I am trying to put this in simple (LEGO) terms for some of you.

When you watch Waite play as a forward, be honest... do you often think "Oh wow, how god is this guy, he will be a 60+ goal forward like Fev one day"?

Or are you like me and think he will never be a gun no.1 forward target (always a no.2 guy!) and therefore you're better off trying to mould him as a CHB? (where he doesn't have to 'create' the play all the time, and instead just has to focus on his man, jump, punch, gather, then run, and run, and run.. and hopefully at the end of it hit a target).

I reckon it's worth trying him at CHB because I'm not sure he will ever step up to be a 60 goal forward, and that's what you want from a guy with his abilities. He could be wasted if left as a 40 goal forward. That's his CHF ceiling (possibly), whereas across Half Back he could turn out to be a more devastating player.

As a forward he might give you 2-2.5 goals/game and 15 touches.

Bu as a CHB, he might be a Cornes type who'll give you 20+ touches, 5 quality spoils on the opposition's CHF, and give you 7 rebounds from CHB.

I watch him and think he is a 4-5 goal forward per game ... but sometimes i'd rather him keep buddy or reiwoldt to 1 or 2 goals instead. its horses for course for me ...

My only concern with Waite at CHB is his decision making, which at times is diabolical. Athletically, he can go with just about anyone (Riewoldt last year eg), but he has brain farts regularly - I'd rather them be in the forward line than CHB, where there's a higher probability they will cost us goals.

There's no doubt Waite is a goer!

He's tall, athletic and aggresive. What does that make him?

Tall, athletic and aggressive.

The only criticism I have of him is when he sprays the ball every now and then, and yes he did improve that in the second half. I also realise that he gets the ball a damn lot of times and the % of clangers is low, whilst the number may seem high.

Decision making?

How does one judge that with a freak? He does the unbelievable, so I don't think someone on the outer can judge is ability to make the right decisions; he's sees options the average player doesn't. Let him be.

Furthermore, what game plan didn't he fit in to give one the impression his decision making was the issue, and he didn't make the right decisions? The whole group was confused, and since Kouta's revelations there was the coach's game plan and the other one where the players tried to conjure a game plan to that to give them a chance of a win.

So maybe Waite was caught in 2 worlds, or he was trying to use his freakish ability to break lines instead of kicking the long bomb to nowhere; perhaps he was fitting in with the players' game plan to win the game.

There lies the problem in the past.

We can't judge his decision making. What do we know about what was going on? Perception is reality, but is it reality?

Waite has proven to be a very dangerous forward. He kicks 40 when playing a cameo CHF role, Don't doubt his ability. IMO no doubt a 60 goal player, even with Fev at FF.

Who wouldn't take 60 goals a season?

The obvious point from the above posts, even from those with doubts on Waite's ability ( ), is that in general Waite is our best option for CHB and CHF for 2008.

He isn't useless. he's an impotant cog in our team...a Mr fix it, an x factor, verastlie and tough. Some, like me would love to have the luxury of playing Waite on the wing.

For those who saw Waite have a bag kicked against him in the first half (he was captain for the day) then be switched to CHF to kick 5 goals in the 2nd half, may suggest he's too loose. Forget it..consider that in some games things go the opposition's way and a bag of goals against can happen to anyone; it's not every game. On the other hand he's taken prized scalps. What does that imply? Capable or incapable?

Also consider the avalanche of opportunities the opposition had to thrust into their forward with ease; not a normal situation. The numbers game was always against the defenders in Carlton's situaition. That'll be fixed with the influx of quality players in the midfield; mark my words (and others). Ratts will also have a different game plan that will ensure a more defensive ability from the team.

I have my preferences, but I don't mind either way. Ill leave it to Ratts to work ut the balance. I just know my opinion, that Waite is one of our best 5 players and he is one of the most dangerous in the competition; unfortunatelly the footy world acknowledges his ability moreso than many of the frustrated Carlton fans who prefer to lay the blame on players rather than the fact we were underresourced, had a failed game plan and a coach who had lost the players many years ago.

We are going to kick some serious ass.

PS: Fisher is not slow. Everone loks slower when chasing. have you seenhow slow he makes defenders lok when he's leading the charge. Perception is reality; there's 2 sides of the coin.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Reckon he's more important to our structure holding down a key defensive post for us.

Bower is an attacking defender but not very accountable from what I have seen.....some of his decision making when he has the ball is dodgy as well.
Tends to run into trouble rather than around it...has the tools to be a good player but needs more nous and awareness...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

I'm wondering if the former coaching style & direction aided Bowers development at AFL level

I'll give him some time with Ratts before making a judgement on his abilities.

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There's so much I could say...

Elwood Blues wote



No doubt he's an attacking defender and perhaps wingman with the pace he possesses. I am not sure about his decision making, because like him, I was unsure what the game plan he had to work with. Ratts seemed to give him a license to attack when he took control of coaching.



It's the nous that comes from experience which I'm convinced he didn't have by the end of 2007; that's an experience issue. Maybe with a bit more pace around the ground and a more accountable midfield (due to extra pace and ability) there will be less pressure on the defense and more options when attacking out of defense.

Bower is an interesting one. He does seem to attack at pace into trouble, but seems to get out of trouble in an uncanny, awkward fashion.

It was Cazz who has pencilled Bower in as his team's CHB. I'm not against the idea. But yeah, I still have to see his improvement with my own eyes before I consider him ready. He does have pace and height on his side.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue